What's the problem? Why is it slow? How do we speed it up? And are these two conversations coming together?

I think they are coming together.

I think one of the challenges is just we have created a framework where all of the risk sits with state government, that we could make a mistake when we are issuing a permit, and then that falls to us in terms of accountability.

And so as a result, our culture is one of being very risk-averse.

And it is hard to move past that and allow people to accept some risk.

I feel that's one of my jobs as the head of the agency is to support people when they are making good decisions based on imperfect information that may not work out.

An example I've used in other conversations is we have a small lake in northern Vermont called Lake Carmi.

It was incredible.