Mm-hmm.

And so it's, you know, it's being able to kinda hold all those different aspects of the circumstances because, you know, once my children transitioned, we no longer had a physical experience of me being the mom raising an eight-year-old and a 10-year-old, them going to school, you know, all the things that you would typically do as a mom of a 10-year-old.

And so, yeah, we, we, we have, we have to grieve that transition.

We have to grieve that shift in the reality that we were experiencing versus the reality of the new circumstances.

And yes, we still have that beautiful connection.

They're still my children.

They're still...

Mm

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Hi, I'm Julie Cleff.

I'm a spiritual medium and a mom of six, and I had a near-death-like experience.

Some might even call it a shared-death experience.

Others might even call it a spiritually transformative experience, but this took place suddenly and also over a long period of time.

But before the accident that created my experience, I was raised in a very conservative Christian home, and I saw spirituality through that lens.

And everything changed on Mother's Day in 2007.

as well.

But what a beautiful gift to have that affirmation of how life goes on and to be able to have a relationship with them after they've passed and just keep them closer than ever, I guess, because they're always there.

Yeah, they're always here.

You know, that's one thing that our human self needs is time and space to grieve and the loss of their physical presence.

But we never lose them because they're always here.

They're always available to us.

I always like to say they're just a thought away.

But, you know... that transition, uh, that transition of going from them being here in the physical, me being the mom, taking care of them, them, them being the, you know, little kids that get on my nerves sometimes and, and are fun and delightful and all their friends in and out of the house and all of that, you know, transitioning from that to them not being here is, is a big deal.

And so is there anything specific that kind of stands out to you in terms of a process and modality? Was it therapy or something else? Like what was it that kind of helped move you through that healing process, especially when it comes to, you know, the, the guilt and the shame and the self-hatred and that side of things?

Please take us down that road for a minute.

Yeah, it's interesting.

When my first book came out, Miracles in the Darkness, I was still very entrenched in religion and, you know, kind of seeing everything from those views, and I was seeing all the miracles, but I wasn't connected to the angelic realm.

And then I started to see 12s everywhere, and eventually my daughter, Carrie, who, you know, she's on the other side, told me that she was the one that was sending 12s to me, but it just, it, it opened me to angel numbers and signs.

And Eric, I was not a person to, like look for things like that.

I was...

You know, math was my favorite subject.

Before we go away, can you tell me a little bit more about David and Carrie? What kind of people were they?

Can you explain to people listening, um, why these, these terrible things, the way we look at them as terrible things or tragic things or traumatic things, happen to us in our lives?

Well, from our vantage point, it is challenging for us to share the answer to that question because we do not want to negate, and we do not want to overlook the pain that is caused by these experiences.

We acknowledge the pain, it, caused by these experiences, and our explanation may feel somewhat clinical.

It may feel somewhat cold in that you are having these experiences for your learning.

You are having these experience for the depth of your knowledge.

You are having these experiences for the growth of your spiritual development, especially for those who are willing to look at their experiences that way.

There are many.

My, my question to you is can you explain to people what a soul group or a soul family is?

And were you at all spiritual or like religious prior

to all of this? I was, yes.

I grew up in a very evangelical, traditional, grounded religion.

You know, that's what I grew up.

in.

And then in the process, I used to say all the time that I stood in the wrong line before I came here and I collected all of this stuff that I had to go through.

And that's turned out to be kind of true.

messages have you gotten from them?