But in the absence of having that person, who or what became your greatest teacher? And how has that experience or person changed the way that you mentor others now?

I will say that architecture, building architecture is a lot more male-dominated, although that's even changing.

Landscape, for some reason, is not.

Actually, in my graduate program, we had 14 women and four men in our incoming class.

Wow.

So it's definitely interesting that I think the little bit freer, more landscape architecture versus architecture kind of brings a nice feminine touch that I...

It wasn't like there weren't any women mentors that I could have had, but in my particular firm...

practice which you can dive into but I want to know what that season taught you about the difference between feeling like prepared and then like you start to decide like now it's time to leave meaning you know how much there's only so much preparation we can do to like make kind of one of those bold leaps in life to do something a little more on your own so walk me through that yeah but