Through the Good Robot series, you really delve into the ideological divide within the AI community, and there's tons and tons of research about the negative impacts of AI and all of the opportunities within AI, so how do you really navigate presenting these different perspectives as fairly as possible?

I was tasked with doing a series about AI and it ended up almost being a series about the politics of AI or something (laughs), which makes sense because I come to this as a Supreme Court reporter (laughs), so I feel like I'm programmed or we're all programmed to, like, listen for the disagreement, or maybe it's just that, like, humans always find their group and we often are polarized in our beliefs, just like in American politics, right? Like, there are beliefs and almost, like, cultural norms and this, like, language that different groups or political parties...

We try to find our tribe, and so I- I found that in the AI world, there was this infighting, and I think political parties, like, they actually had more in common than (laughs), than they wanted to admit.

And so what I love to do is, is help people who would never see themselves as allies or who, who can't talk to each other in real life, put them in dialogue with each other on the radio (laughs) or on a podcast.

And so navigating that was really tricky 'cause I didn't even realize that there were these groups or this polarization within AI when I first started out, and it just slowly came out.

I was like, "Wait a second.

I think these people are fighting with each other.

How do you reconcile that as a journalist or what do you even just think about it, broadly?

What's their deal? What are they concerned about? How are they different from the safetyists who are focused on these existential problems or risks?

Yeah.

The AI ethicists that I spoke to came to AI pretty early on, too.

Like, just a couple years, maybe, after, a few years after Eliezer was writing about it.

They were working on algorithms.

They were working on AI as it existed in- in the world.

So that- that was a key difference.

How do they fit in to this story, or how are they situated?

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In ancient Roman structures, there is no reinforcement, no steel And so they built the structures with huge walls, thick walls, and everything was very, very bulky.