to move from role to role within the company was that a competitive thing then did you have sort of was it an application process how did that work

sometimes normally it was a matter of the company growing and the founders being you know already earmarking who in the company were the ones who were going to help them take their business forward so i'd quite often i i i I call one of the founders my sponsor because I think he did what, you know, if we think about self-belief and women sometimes lack that, men do too.

But it's something that I dealt with.

He would always be the one saying the next job for you.

is managing director the next job for you um until the last job which was the ceo role and i came back from a a speaking event breakfast i went to where someone said women don't ask for them ask for the job and i happened to have my one-on-one with him that day and so i said to him i'm going to ask for your job and he said to me he said well let's talk about that are you serious about that And we talked it through and we made a path and a plan for that.

So I've been lucky that I've always had a sponsor been promoting me up the chain.

He also, the other thing he did that helped me stay in one company is he made sure I got involved in my industry.

a little bit about how did you arrive at that conclusion that for you that this was the best thing for you to be doing, something of your own?