Und bist du zufrieden mit der Resonanz, jetzt drei Monate später?

Was ist positiv? Das ist wirklich in Policy-Kreisen in Europa extrem breit und stark gelesen worden.

Wir haben, wir wissen, dass es Präsidenten, Kanzler, Minister, also alle wichtigen Leute in Europa irgendwie vor den, vor Augen hatten und sich angehört oder gelesen haben.

Super.

Ja, also es wird geredet, es wird gelesen.

Geil.

Gleichzeitig passiert noch nicht so viel auf der Aktionsseite.

Oder doch?

Machen die jetzt was falsch oder braucht es einfach noch Geduld? Wie kann das sein? Weil da entsteht ja ein ganz, ganz großer Zweifel, ob diese ganze Geschichte überhaupt wahr ist.

Ja.

Ich glaube, ich würde dazu zwei Dinge sagen.

Das Erste ist, dass glaube ich, wie jede neue Technologie oder wie alles, was ich einführe und zum ersten Mal nutze, man immer durch so eine J-förmige Kurve geht.

Die Investoren sagen J-Curve.

Man sagt ja auch oft so die S-Kurve, wenn wir so um Technologieadoption das ganze Thema sprechen.

Das bedeutet ganz konkret, dass ich am Anfang erstmal eine relativ hohe Anschubenergie habe, um etwas neu nutzen zu können und daraus Wert zu ziehen.

Mich interessiert jetzt vor allem die Frage, was steckt dahinter? Auch vor dem Hintergrund, dass sich ja andere Unternehmen fragen könnten, brauchen wir eigentlich bei dem Szenario, das du vorhin beschrieben hast, eigene Rechenkapazitäten? Lohnt es sich für ein großes deutsches Unternehmen, KI-Chips zu kaufen?

For an English-speaking audience, I hope it's helpful.

100%.

I thank you for this kind of very illustrative example of these examples, because it's exactly that, right? I mean, people felt like they were being outlawed in the country and in the language that they very much consider their home.

And, you know, think of that, what you want, and, you know, change has always been around and language has always been changing.

And so I I think, you know, it's not so much about can we change language to be more inclusive? I think it was more that there was a moral weight that came with this discussion, whether people who are not, you know, kind of doing or kind of adapting to this change in a really, really rapid way was somehow seen as less or different or racist or like, you know, kind of pick your favorite insults.

And I think that's what...

Speaking kind of more societally, that was one example.

And we rely on the fact that we'll somehow always have good enough models to be able to defend ourselves, to be able for our companies to compete because we'll have access to those models.

So first question, why is that the recommendation? Could you unpack that in a little bit more depth? And second question, why is it superior to another recommendation, which would be, why can't Europe and other middle powers band together and just build our own frontier AI?

Yeah, so today Europe hosts about 5% of the world's compute.

The US hosts about 75 to 80%, which means that we already are very dependent on the US for kind of European compute needs.

We want a world in which Europe has a real seat at the table and has the ability to take care of its own AI transformation needs to the largest extent.

That for us does not mean a world of, you know, kind of sovereignty as independence, but sovereignty as interdependence, which we do believe, you know, needs to, to some extent, rely on transatlantic collaboration with the US, but also rely on collaboration with other middle powers.

I'm going to try and unpack kind of the compute piece separately from the model piece.

For the compute piece, you know, I think as we just showed in the – or as we tried to describe in the scenario, we all do worry about a future in which the world will be very compute constrained.

Actually, in more than one place, not just ASML, also Zeiss, right? So if Europe is unable to leverage in this world, Zeiss, and it's unable to leverage ASML, why think a whole bunch of basically commodity level data centers are somehow going to tip the balance in our favor?

What can we do as the number one priority to get things moving?

Yeah.

A lot of our report focuses on the building of data centers on European soil, um, at much, much bigger scale than we are currently undertaking.

To give you an example, the EU has, um, you know, pledged about 200 billion of investment to flow into that, but a lot of this is, you know, reliant on private capital, and we have seen sluggish, you know, actual build-out of the gigafactories that are planned, and so it needs for a lot more urgency.

That will also need to include energy.

It will need to include grid connections, permitting.

Um, there is this, we think, wonderful idea of special economic zones that are basically, you know, allow you for more deregulation, building significantly more data centers on European soil, because at the end of the day, compute is the fabric that all of this runs on, and today Europe hosts about 5% of global compute.

Where's it gonna come from, Judith?

So when you look back at the last couple of years, What has happened and what have we got wrong that has made us need to do this big course correction? Where have we gone wrong to get us to where we are today?

Yeah.

So there's a couple of things that we go into in the narrative scenario.

The first is that we underestimated the magnitude of this transformation.

We kind of saw AI as just another technology shift, maybe in the way that mobile was a technology shift, without understanding that it's much more similar to the Industrial Revolution.

if not actually bigger than the industrial revolution, because we're talking a technology that is so horizontal that it can basically affect every single industry.

It's kind of a, you can think about it like a wave that, you know, in the beginning it starts to build, but in the end it doesn't leave any piece of ground untouched and, you know, kind of not wet, everything in the end is covered by the water.

When you look at those issues, how do we fix it? If it is an inevitable consequence of the structure that we live in, that Europe is kind of living in, whether it's Brussels or the UK or individual countries versus the EU, how do we fix it? How do we fix the structure? How do we get out of this rubble?

Do you think we're going to see a sort of huge amount of value wiped off of some investors, older funds?

I could see that.

I could see that.

I think that's certainly something that I think about.

You know, we've seen a drought in terms of being able to exit these companies.

You know, IPO markets have been sluggish.

You know, M&A has been sluggish.

than ever um what would be your sort of top three requests for european policy makers or you know people who can like really change the dynamic over here