So when you talk value capture, what for you does that look like in practice? How do you get that? How do you get to that kind of hard line number?

So you look at the number of touches of people within the process.

So I'm going to talk about things very generically and then hopefully, you know, it doesn't necessarily take through all the GDPR and all of those pieces.

So what I tend to look at within processes is how many touch points do we have with the various different systems? Is there a way to do straight through processing from moving from one system to another? Why are we double keying? Why are we double checking? Is there a risk? So you work with the compliance teams to understand why is there a 4i check here? Do we really need the 4i check on a regulatory basis? Or do you then need to actually remove that to, you know, you can remove a step.

You know, it depends on the client and the customer on what you're actually trying to check on a retail wealth management corporate space.

So you start to actually look at the processes within that space.

and actually chart through an end-to-end.

one of the things i do see a lot i mentioned this before the process teams where they tend not to put a number on things and you mentioned setting a north star and getting into the detail as you get through it and as you start to realize that a lot of the teams i've seen that i work with are almost scared to put that initial north star down they don't want to tie themselves to a figure that might be over or under ambitious generally a lot of process professionals come from kind of a quality space where there's a massive risk there's a massively low risk tolerance so they're scared to sometimes state an ambitious figure for what an improvement yields what would you say to most people who are starting out improvement programs but are apprehensive about actually putting a number on what they're going to try to deliver