Was m- was Therese a victim soul?

Um, yes and no, because she didn't perceive it that way.

I think a lot of, in the spiritual life, it's not, it's not subjective, so it's not how we perceive things, but I think a lot of it depends on, well, it's relationship, you know? So relationships vary on how you perceive them and how you live them.

So Therese lived this deep relationship with the Lord.

She was a victim to God's merciful love, yes.

But she preferred, um, she preferred the category, not so much of [sighs] like reparation and stuff, but like, for example, on the Holy Face of Tours, which is her shortest prayer, she had like a little stamp of the Holy Face of Tours, and she wrote, "Make me resemble you, oh, Jesus." So it's more of a participation in.

It's more of like an offering of self.

Okay.

Can you recount that apparition?

So he was a Jewish man.

He was French.

He would later testify that he had never opened the Jewish scriptures.

He had never spoken to people about his Jewish faith.

So he was only culturally Jewish.

His brother had converted actually before him, long before him, to Catholicism and had become a Jesuit.

Tell us about that.