Do you think we'll actually get any kind of common ground or do you think that nations will run ahead, which is what happened in the case of road signs? Nations ran ahead because they had their own needs.

Well, you know, this is a classic economic problem of that in terms of collisions that ships at sea and everybody who operated at the oceans would like to see lighthouses up and operational.

but nobody really wanted to pay for them.

And the point is, unless you have some sort of agreement to say, yes, we have to have lighthouses and that our governments will pay for them, or we will have a collective system to pay for them, then you have crashes at sea.

Well, we have the same sort of problem in space, that nobody wants to pay for the lighthouses and space system to create space safety.

And we're getting to a threshold critical point, the so-called... where that it isn't just what we're putting up that is at risk, is that we have enough debris out there that it's creating its own debris and creating a lethal shield that will deny us access to space because we won't be able to launch things safely without them crashing into debris.

So this is really a point of criticality in my view that Donald Kessler raised this issue 40 years ago and no one took it seriously then because actually natural debris from micrometeorites and what have you was a bigger problem.

But