Yeah.

But one thing I tell everybody is not everybody's a relational learner.

Um, and, um, so Delaney came out, he put out his thing, behavior, behavioral supervision model, and it's build a genuine human relationship, and he was all into that, and that's great.

And, you know, I was in counseling, so I thought, "Okay, yeah, genuine human relationship, that's the way we start." Um, Robinson came along, Anne Robinson published a paper that he was just not into any human relationship.

He was into program instruction manuals.

And he compared his training procedure to the verbal behavior training procedures used by Delaney.

And Delaney got us all in a group, you know, and it was basically you got all this feedback from your fellow counselors.

Mm-hmm