the second being game theory so reading the table introducing scenarios where you know not everyone can come out the same and some people have to make optimal or suboptimal decisions to keep the game going gathering information and then negotiation and politics everything you say from the moment you sit down is a negotiation real time the whole part of this is part of basically the game that we're playing so I'm just curious from both of your perspectives how this lands for you, and if you think that there are other layers that maybe aren't mentioned, or if there are sort of sub-layers within these that are really important to point out to people who are looking for active improvement in the game.

So I think on our channel, we talked about...

It's kind of a similar idea, right? Where I think 80% of the time, your normal Magic play, the same stuff you take at a 60-card table, 80% of that is translatable then into a cedh game where 80 you know you get 80% of the way there and you're going to be a probably 25% to 30% win rate player if you translate just the mechanical skills so what gets you that last 20% right and i think that's where understanding the nuances of the multiplayer game which is kind of falls into that layer to that game theory layer because it's more than just reading the table understanding what your opponents are doing right it's The nuances that four, that three additional players bring to the table and understanding how each of those players are going to interact and how each of those players are viewing the situation.

And then having to be able to kind of game around the other three gets you kind of that 10%, right? And that's like your, your 30 to 33%.

And then the last 10% that gets you to that 35, 40, 45 plus percent win rate is that negotiation and politicking.

right can i convince the table that my ideas are correct that i that i'm seeing the board the best can i negotiate my way out of bad deals and can i get away from oh we're gonna draw the game type of scenario yeah how can i make the prisoner dilemma work for me rather than you know work for everybody else and how can i kind of you know you're kind of you're oscillating right a lot of times in this game between good guy and bad guy right at times where i'm working with the party for the benefit of everybody.

And at times I'm oscillating to the other way that, hey, I'm now the enemy of the party and I'm now the bad guy.

Like, how do I be better at politics?

Yeah.

Like, it, it goes quick because as soon as this card hits the board, you're really putting a clock on the table because of how many cards you're generating, how much mana you're generating, that it's very, very hard for players to keep up with it.

Because I'm not having to do anything, right? I'm not expending any resources to gain all this value, right? Like, I don't have to touch another piece of mana to gain all these resources, to put all these cards onto the table, to have all this extra mana.

But then you combine it with a deck like a Thrasios deck, where I think this card really shines, now I'm turning all that mana into extra card draw, which then just fuels my turns and makes them even more powerful.

And so a lot of times, really, the tippy top of this card is just, dude, I have mana or a card advantage to take, you know, to fully take advantage of all these bodies, and then that really just quickly closes the game.

You, you really...

The top deck manipulation almost never would come in, into play, I think, in a practical game.

What do you wanna tell the people about?

Like, yeah, it's great.

Yeah.

Well, on the subject of making YouTube videos, I have questions for the two of you, Chris and Jordan.

You guys have been at this for so long and I'm curious on your perspective on how it's changed.

You know, like, there's just a lot in that ques- there's, like, the camera market-

No, it's not.

But fairly quickly we got- (laughs) ... to a level where, yeah, it was better than, you know, something that someone with no background in video production could put together where now, you know, the bar is so much higher if you're starting.

But I think it almost puts us in an interesting place 'cause it's not so much about, like, how is your production value but it's, like, what are you producing and if-