Would you say more about that?

Yeah, you know, I see this very anguished, sorrowful, difficult obligation, a sense of obligation from those who were abused to visit their abuser, whether they are dying or have died.

And the conversation around forgiveness, that's an ongoing conversation.

And I do think that I named something in the book forgiveness propaganda.

I do think that church culture, pop culture, whether it's self-help or spirituality, really overemphasize and push hard on forgiveness.

And if the victim can't forgive their abuser, then somehow they're the ones who are in the way of a beautiful Hollywood reconciliation, right? But still, I get why that narrative is pushed, because we do want to see, in some sense, some sort of happily ever after come out of this.

We want to believe that abusers can be redeemed.

And also I think will be really powerful for people to think about, what do I want to say? Like to think about family dynamics and then especially family dynamics in a crisis.

Yeah.

And I've one time got a call.

I hear screaming.

And I said, what's the patient's name and room number? I don't know.

It's just on the sixth floor.

Come.

They're screaming.

Right in the camera? Right in the camera.