What does that do? What is the impact of that complexity?

The impact of that complexity is everybody leaves the room not knowing, how do I apply this? And what do I apply? And so if you got, like you said, the 20-year veteran, the 10-year veteran, and then the new guy who's the expert because he's been on the job for two days all giving you feedback [chuckles] after a role play.

Now you've got to figure out, what do I apply, and what does my company actually want me to apply? You get in those situations too where it's like, "Hey, two of these feedback tidbits were great, but seven of them, that's not how they want it done." And so I'll tell you a story of this company we worked with.

They'd just gotten like $130 million in startup funding, so highly funded, ready to scale the sales team, ready to rock and roll.

And I went in and I observed the training, and they did a role play, and same situation we're talking about here.

Somebody goes, it's not great, it's decent, but way too much feedback.

And somebody's saying, "Hey, you should've built more rapport." Another person is saying, "You should've had better discovery." Someone else is saying, "You didn't get any pain points, dig up any pain points." And then they all give some ideas on how to be better.

What should sales leaders and sales professionals be looking for if they're in an organization to stop using that gut feel but also start trying to make it look good for them and not just look good in general?

Take us through that.

Well, this is a nice build because let's pretend we did our discovery, which you and I kind of role played out.

We hit the finances and we kind of got ahead of, we call it vanguarding, which is getting ahead of problems before they come problems, which is the pricing and the buying of the decision or the buying of the fireplace being more expensive than people assume.

So now let's say we're looking at some models or some different fireplace options.

And Where I'm thinking as the seller is, all right, we know these pain points.

And if I have 20 different models that I could show, I'm only going to show the ones that would directly solve the issues we've learned earlier, which is we know the different issues with the fireplace deteriorating, the waking up early because we're cutting logs too small.

Yeah.

They usually get nervous about that.