Is there, is there like a, kind of like a red pill moment that like, oh, you saw that for the first time where you started to see those different things, both the beauty and the like ugliness that people experience on foot?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's, Ryan, the, it's the, that tension between the two is literally the space where I'm creating all the time, 'cause there's just, there's endless benefit to moving more the way we're made to.

You know, I, and I go, I go on and on and on about just specifically the mental health.

I, for me, it's so much a mental health thing.

I, after 20...

... you know, how do you see that work in kind of the pedestrian dignity stuff and starting to make change in places and letting, like, s-cities see themselves of like, "Oh yeah, this isn't what we're saying we are."