These are very difficult conversations to have to explain this, but that's what we were here to do, is try to attempt to give some insight for Israelis into what's going on and how we might reverse some of these trends.

Yeah, similarly, I've been coming to Israel since for a while.

I used to work at the State Department for the first Trump administration.

I used to come to Israel four times a year.

I love Israel.

I'm a Zionist, and I really care about the relationship between America and Israel.

and it is falling apart drastically on the right.

What would your message be to them in terms of the fear, whatever, real to have that fear or not, a better message to them?

How should you talk about Indian immigration in a way that's not going to just make a bunch of people angry, make a bunch of people offended, and, and make us lose, turn off normal people who don't want to be haters?

Yeah, I mean, I...

You know, look, um, I don't have the magic wand.

I can't tell people sort of rhetorically, uh, what they ought to do.

I think people just ought to be mindful.

They ought to firstly understand the facts.

I think a lot of people just refuse to acknowledge what's true versus what's not true, understanding the true scope of it.

... a, the, we're suffering from success, that we are able to solve problems that we run on and then lose elections because of it? And if that is a problem, how on earth do we solve it?

in one of their own cities.

cities.Well, I think this is why, um, Indians in particular are such a unique case and why people are having sort of trouble having a meaningful and sober conversation about this, um, because Indians don't, like you said, have a sort of typical story that we assign to other groups that are experiencing mass immigration.

Um, they get good jobs.

They contribute to the economy.

Their crime rate is close to zero, although, you know, with, of course, some exceptions.

Um, they seem interested in American culture.

They are what's called well integrated or acculturated, which is different than assimilation.

How should you talk about Indian immigration in a way that's not going to just make a bunch of people angry, make a bunch of people offended, and, and make us lose, turn off normal people who don't want to be haters?

the way the movement has reacted to it.

Yeah, I mean, you know, just to set the table for, for your listeners, uh, you know, I...

This is something I talk about quite a lot on, on the show with, with Chris Rufo.

We have a show on The Blaze, and we've been talking about the Iran war.

And I share, I think, your guys's perspective, not to speak for you both, which is that I was always skeptical of this as a military operation.

It was unclear to me what the objectives were.

Um, it was a bit unclear to me how we were meant to achieve those objectives, and certainly what the day after was look, uh, might look like.

... go from here?

Um, so Jonathan, uh, Let's just get your viewpoint, first of all, on where we're at with the ceasefire, and then we'll get into the way the movement has reacted to it.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, just to set the table for your listeners, you know, this is something I talk about quite a lot on the show with Chris Ruffo.

We have a show on The Blaze and we've been talking about the Iran war.

And I share, I think, your guys' perspective, not to speak for you both, which is that I was always skeptical of this as a military operation.

It was unclear to me what the objectives were.

It was a bit unclear to me how we were meant to achieve those objectives and certainly what the day after might look like.

Where do we go from here?

so 30 000 foot views we like to start off here sometimes help help make sense of the swirl that's going on the tension that's going on in the movement in the conservative coalition

yeah i mean i think that's the right frame and frankly i also you know i'm online all the time i'm on twitter i have a podcast and you can't help but sort of get embroiled in the sort of soap opera what's going on online And the speed at which the news comes out online and new things come into the discourse and things that were relevant yesterday seem to just disappear without a trace.

And people have a kind of goldfish brain where they can't remember what happened five seconds ago.

this creates a sort of manic energy, a sort of bipolar energy.

Almost you're up one day.

It's very exciting.

There's a lot of enthusiasm.

That's the alternative, though,

And I think in the last couple of weeks, people really come to see that we are in a time of churning and testing, both as a movement as a country.

Well, I think for me anyway, in Charlie's absence, it was only in the last couple of months that I came to realize just what a sort of central figure of gravity he was holding this whole coalition together.

And in his absence, you do see sort of the barbarians at the gate.

You see people and forces sort of coming into this coalition and using sort of the vacuum that was created by Charlie's untimely death to fill it with different kinds of ideas and different sort of self-interested agendas that could derail what was a really strong thing and what still is, but is going to require, I think, everybody to sort of take a cue from Erica and try to embody this unifying spirit that Charlie had.

And so I think that's the task before us here.

You

I think he's realizing, you know, he would have been luckier if he died a lot younger than he's living to be now.

I think also for me, this puts into perspective what we're doing here.

How is why is that? How did it change? And and, you know, how are you playing a role

in it? I mean, it's a complicated picture.

I mean, if I'm trying to be maximally sort of charitable, I would say that a lot of this is less so sort of the failing of the left and rather the success of the left.

So what you have is a period of cultural domination for most of my adult life, most of our adult lives.

And this leads to a kind of condition of complacency.

They had kind of won the fight.

They had taken over academia.

I mean,

Tech- the technical deficiencies of Adolf Hitler are definitely, definitely there in a few places in his life, yes.

So, so this is actually, this is a really interesting question, and of course it's worth addressing, and I think all of the things you said can simultaneously be true.

And I think, uh, there's a fourth point I wanna add here, which is sort of historically contextual.

We started this conversation by trying to think back to where this current sort of moment of our cultural, social, intellectual, ideological path began, and we identified somewhere in the 2010s.

Now, everything I'm about to talk about has precursors, but something else happens here around, like, 2012, and, uh, maybe you identify the Trayvon Martin case, into 2013, 2014.

Certainly, there's the Michael Brown hands up, don't shoot, Black Lives Matter.

Simultaneously to that, we have a kind of, a discussion happening in this country around immigration, and what would happen to this country if we started allowing people in from all over the world? Is everybody the same from everywhere? And if we're gonna have a sort of pluralistic democracy, what does that look like in a, a future where th- it's no- a non, uh, white, uh, predominantly white country? These are legitimate things to think about.

That's always-