Maybe you can tell us a little bit about how you ended up shooting this movie and how you ended up being a filmmaker and all of these.

Sure.

Yeah.

[clears throat] Okay.

Well, ha.

We were, um ...

I, I grew up in suburban New York area, and so kind of too young to have been in the '60s, but, uh, definitely heard about the '60s from brothers and sisters and that kind of thing, so.

Yeah

And yeah, maybe you can tell us a little bit about how you ended up shooting this movie and how you ended up being a filmmaker and all of these.

Sure.

Yeah.

[clears throat] Okay.

Well, ha, we were, um ...

I, I grew up in suburban New York area, and so kind of too young to have been in the '60s, but, uh, definitely heard about the '60s from brothers and sisters and that kind of thing, so.

Uh, and was going into Manhattan when I was 13 for the Marijuana Day marches and, and all that in Washington Square Park, and reading Abbie Hoffman, and a lot of countercultural influences like Mad Magazine and all kinds of stuff like that.

Yeah

And it got ugly, didn't it?

Yeah.

There were a lot of ideas floating around and, you know, it became like a laboratory, the Black Bear Ranch.

it was like a laboratory for ideas so one of the ideas not a good idea in my opinion is like you treat the children like adults or like gods you know children were treated as full adults i think a few hundred years ago so the group comes along they're challenging everything about black bear some of which might have made a little bit of sense like saying oh you guys are just doing this so you can party and whatever which people want to party who doesn't 120 something So there were some things that they were maybe somewhat legitimately challenging, which was basically you guys are bourgeoisie and you're here to just get high and have somebody babysit your kids.

And we're doing it a different way.

And that means the kids have full agency to choose their fate so the shiva lila came there and they were messing with people you know what i mean yeah like you push the buttons in order to to undo the buttons and move on to the new world that surely must be coming So the only thing is they came there without, you didn't ask, like, can I come and push your buttons to mess with you so you can get into a new world?

And that was the essence of his project.

Yeah, and going back to exactly to where you started, he was living in LA right there on Glendale Boulevard, you know, definitely working for sure for various aircraft companies.