Was it that order where you saw sort of something that you'd never seen before? Or what, what was it?

Well, I think the, the moment that this case transformed for me was when I heard the US Attorney, Andrew Boutros, acknowledge vouching and other wrongdoing before the grand jury on that very big dramatic day.

But just to set the scene and, and take us back, and then I'll, I'll, I'll get to that.

You know, so I've covered this courthouse for, for more than a decade, and the US Attorney's office in Chicago has just, like, a really strong reputation for its credibility.

It's really been one of the most powerful things about the office.

In the waning days of the first Trump administration, the Trump-appointed prosecutor then was pursuing the top Democrat in Illinois, who's now in prison.

That's former Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan.

How, as a journalist, are you connecting the dots, reading the tea leaves in order to do your job, the job of the free press, to shed light on this government misconduct?