How did you navigate that path?

I think a pastor ought to be cultivating friendships in the church.

Yes, he does have a position of authority and responsibility over the flock.

At the same time, he's a member of the church just like everybody else in that church, and there ought to be a cultivation of friendship, which I think means doing the types of things that you need to sustain a good friendship, getting together regularly.

It's not just a matter of saying hi in church to each other, but getting together separately for lunches or breakfasts.

I think if you can, getting involved with a small group in your church and being committed to the people in that group and even trying to build relationships and friendships with the people in that group.

Both Greg and I have been overseeing small groups at the various churches we've been part of, and I know that we both have sought to try to build relationships with the men in our groups that way as kind of a starting point to get together.

What does it mean to sit in that? Well, I think

Not that come to my mind immediately.

But the Lord in his grace has given us this historical connection, similar interests, now a similar history.

So many things now that we have.

And now, even in our adult years, I should go back to one of the things that we, I mean, besides all the things we've already mentioned, going fishing together as well.

We would, between our sophomore and junior year of college.

I'm pretty sure it was probably Greg that thought of it, but the Olympics was going on that summer in Los Angeles.

This is the summer of 1984.

I mean,