What was the gap that you have noticed with Marketo and what's the idea behind Fave? So why did you decide to come back basically where you have started?

Okay.

Um, well, so yeah, I mean, back 20 years ago when we started Marketo lead nurturing was the problem.

I mean, like back in 2006, you have to remember Google AdWords was only two years old in 2006.

Um, and so, gosh, it seems ancient, but marketers were really for the first time starting to generate online leads in any real volume.

Um, and yeah, the idea of, of having a, an ebook or a form that somebody might fill out, uh, to get it, those were new ideas back then.

Uh, and lo and behold, it turns out everybody who filled out a form.

how should I be thinking about personalizing that journey for that individual? Like, how can I make sure that I'm actually driving them in the right direction, that I am giving them the right info, well, maybe not driving, but that I'm giving the right information and increasing the chance of them actually ending up, that we as a vendor end up in their consideration set and maybe with the sales call and the sales opportunity later on.

So when you start thinking of a platform for Engageo, what was the first product features that you put together? What did the MVP look like?

Well, so remember, in many ways, my North Star hasn't changed.

I want to build that platform for true one-to-one marketing that makes every interaction more intelligent.

Now, I'm going to focus out on B2B, but that's sort of the North Star.

And I just want to engage you to be, frankly, the next generation of that kind of same sequence.

In order to do that, the most fundamental thing you need is the proverbial single view of the customer.

Yeah, 360 view.

And when you guys do ROI calculations for your customers, how do they think of account-based marketing and how much they should spend in that activity?

When you zoom out, how do you think about the different chapters of the MarTech story that you've been a part of and what defined each of those chapters in your mind?

Well, I think there's probably even a chapter before Marketo, which might be worth mentioning, which was Epiphany, which is where I started working right out of business school, along with Phil Fernandez and Dave Miranda, who went on to be my Marketo co-founders.

If you had to give a name to that chapter, it was On Premise.

This was traditional legacy enterprise software where we were helping companies do very complex segmentation database marketing.

We sold Epiphany, and that's when Phil and I started talking about starting a new company circa 2005, 2006.

Let's just call that, for me personally, 2006 to 2015 era, about the nine years I was there.

If I had to give that... era name, I'd call it earning the seat, you know, where we really tried at Marketo to help marketing, you know, prove that it was part of the revenue engine and not a cost center.

What is broken? How do you sort of frame the problem set with the current landscape on the demand side?

So what was going on then?

I stopped with Epiphany till 2005 when we finally sold Epiphany to an ERP firm called SSA Global.

And I didn't have interest in working there.

And so when I was offered a package to leave, I took the package.

I told my wife this.

She thought I was insane because we had just bought our first house and we had a mortgage and she was pregnant with our first kid.

So I was out kind of looking for a job.

And I'm wondering, when did you first get an inkling that something was off with this model? Was it while you were at Marketo? Was it sometime after? I