What do politicians make of Trump? What's the honest opinion among them? First of

all, he's not stupid.

You know, Trump has won two elections.

I think the Make America Great Again actually was a slogan that cut through.

Whether you agree with any of his policies, it was a genius bit of simplicity that really resonated with looking to something from the future but harking back to some nostalgic past.

I thought it was a great slogan.

But look, Donald Trump, I just think you have to take Trump.

I did ask somebody who's with an interest in unionist politics said, what would I ask John Burroughs? He said, should there be one unionist party? Is there every chance of unionist unity? Could you get on with Jim Allister? Will there be one big party? Should you not be one big bloc and go, this is us? Or is there too many ideological philosophical and personal

Well, what's your appeal then? So if there's an Alliance voter who formerly voted Ulster Unionist, who's listening to this podcast now, what's your pitch to bring them back? So how are you different from Gavin Robinson?

Well, my first pitch is that alliances have been disastrous.

I want people to come home to the Ulster Unionist Party.

That means me also coming home to them.

And their worries being my worries and their hopes being our aspirations and all of our policies and all those things.

But I think, first of all, that the Alliance Party left as voters.

I think where the Alliance are on so many issues now, they've drifted towards outright nationalism in many ways.

And then would you go as far as saying, I know, I mean, it makes sense, you want to maximise the unionist vote, you want to see transfers passed between the parties, but would you tell also unionist voters, first preference voters, to go to the DUP2, TUV3, or would you just say, vote for unionists?