I think that's why a lot of people that make mistakes avoid the apology and avoid sitting with that person and avoid acknowledging the impact because it makes you so uncomfortable to witness the pain that you caused.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah, well, speaking from the empathy standpoint, you know, I've once told you that the most important thing about communication, the process of communication with another person, generally true for any communication, but especially in an apology, the most important component is going to be the empathy piece.

And I get, you know, the name of the podcast is Men Need Love Too.

I understand that this stereotype, whether it's true or not, is that men...

We avoid our feelings and we avoid doing things that require a lot of emotions.

And I'm such a believer in self-forgiveness and I talk about how difficult it is and it just dawned on me like I've I don't think I've I think I've done one exercise with saying like I'm sorry to myself but I'm like when have I apologized to myself I can't think of a situation where I have can you talk about that apology to self and why it's difficult and when it's really necessary

How often are you finding it's that versus more directly ill intent?

It's pretty common, I'd say.

It's more common than not.

Of the many things I teach people focus on, one of the things that I really gotta hammer home to folks sometimes is the ability to use empathy in your fact-finding, um, to use it in your information gathering, and to use it in your reasoning, right? Um, apologies Let me take one step back.

A lot of people are kind of turned off from apologies and those kind of conversations because they just kind of fear the high emotional aspect of it.

It's not necessarily a high emotional conversation.

It could, it could be if you kind of let things a- get out of control.

Mm-hmm.