And for those who aren't familiar with the format, aside from title case, tell us a little bit about what the elements are of a good VSL.

Which I later dropped, but yeah, I probably should put it back because it worked once really well.

So BSL, I have a really good BSL.

For years, I said never put an image in there at all because the whole idea is to take the user, the reader on a journey of their own mind.

So their mind is more persuasive than you can ever be.

So if you can say for a great, give you a great, great example.

I saw a VSL when I was first starting off and teaching how to do this, a guy wrote a VSL.

It feels elementary to you and me, but why is it that you're not going to get the quality of content that you want if you just go straight to the LLM?

Right, right.

But that being said, and this is something that, that I've noticed and worked into Binson, the AI that we have, over the years, um, that when you are in alignment, and I don't...

Th- I'm the least woo person you'll probably meet, but when you are in alignment with your core values and you're writing from that perspective, whether it's AI or by hand, it does not matter, and that audience, that, that's your message to your audience.

In other words, you're not just trying to sell something, you're actually in alignment with it.

You're speaking the language of your avatars.

You're speaking the language of, of, of your values.

That seeps into the words.

Mm-hmm.

How are you helping entrepreneurs and business owners really get their voice and be able to reach more people and make a bigger impact?

Well, it started in 2010.

I wanted to figure out how to take video sales letters, a format that's very difficult to teach, and take what I was teaching for years on how to do it and teach people who are not copywriters.

So we've got a lot of hurdles to overcome there.

So I thought, well, what if we could build software around it? And so we released the very first copywriting software back in 2010 for direct response.

And that was called Celerator.

Dumb name, but it did sell like over a billion dollars of copy.

And what question haven't I asked so far that, you know, we should be asking? It's really, really, I'll just kind of pass it to you, John.

And so if someone says, okay, this like BNSN AI, like what's the process with that? Is it, is it like you, you prompt it like anything else or like give it a bunch of, of words? Like how does it create the VSL for you?

Yeah.

So we coined the two- we trademarked two phrases.

One is Promptless AI, so we have a trademark on that, and the other one is, um, is pre-prompting.

So that, that we, we created the, the idea behind what is now a pretty common place, but, but again, four years ago, this, this wasn't at all, and that's to like feed the AI examples.

Um, but before you feed it examples, you feed it what those examples are designed to do.

So in other wo- what is the framework of the example? And it's funny because we used to have, when you'd log into BNSN, you, you would see a, a whole library called Frameworks, and we had it there for three years, and then, then when the agentic phase hit, we, we said, "Well, we're really more into agents now anyway," so now we just call it, we just took it out and called it the agent.

Yeah

Thank you for his service.

Yeah.

Yeah, he-- I, I would wish I could...

I thanked him every day until he passed.

But, uh, he...

You know, these are-- they say greatest generation.

I got front row seats to this and pretty amazing.

So was there a moment, like a single moment, maybe a campaign, a failure, but a time when you saw human behavior so clearly that it kinda changed everything forever?

So talk a little bit about, you know, kind of what you've built.

Yeah, so what our approach was from day one w- was this is back...

You gotta go, th- again, we're talking, like, in, in, it's like dog years, right? Every year in AI is like a, is like a dog year.

It's seven years in, in, in real time.

But if you go back to, like, back in GPT-3 days, right? When you could get maybe 30 words out of [laughs] out of the AI to- and it sounded all the same, and it was r- it was, it was really pr- pretty horrible.

But we saw the potential.

We saw the handwriting on the wall.

And two, um, does your AI or do you have one that you recommend that now after you've got a script will actually produce the video?

Mm

...

this is That's basically what I d- what, how I define it.

So the words that most, that mo- and if you want to get g- g- good copy are, are the words that, that most effectively sell, [laughs] it's just- [laughs] ... it's not a question of what I like, it's how effective it is, right? So how it most effectively sell the idea of hope and change.

So, uh, now I realize hope and change is a political thing that goes back to Obama era, and I, I'm not evoking politics here, but, but people want to change, but they want hope more than they want anything else.

So selling hope is not a bad thing as long as hope is backed in reality.

Mm-hmm.

... and for humanity.

Now, is that something that you guys are doing reliably at this point?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Especially with the new version of Benson, which comes out ironically next week from the time we're recording this.

But yeah, to be fully agentic is one thing.

To be agentic and you're pulling from your own knowledge bases and you're actually fully spinning off different agents for different things is another thing.

so a lot of people are that they will use some of the the features of agents but they won't use a lot of the tools and a lot of the things that are very i guess you could say a little bit more technical um takes a little bit more effort than than just using level to create an app i'll put it that way uh to where you're you're you're using you're using all the tools in the right order in the right sequences for example we actually have in benson alone we have over 70 agents So that's a lot of agents to write copy.

A

Yes.

Yeah.

I'm, I mean, I don't know anyone who hasn't, right? So those videos always suck They're always terrible.

I mean, 'cause they just, uh, they have no idea what they're doing.

I- they, they have a ve- they have a selling vehicle on there, they have no clue how good they could be.

That video could be turned into a, a VSL with, still with images, you know.

So people think of ugly VSLs as original is true, no text.

What, what is buyer alignment in, in kind of simple terms?