Where you started from, how you got into law enforcement, and how you met Jesus.

It started out when I was a young lad, I guess, in the mid-80s.

four, five, six, and seven.

I lived beside my grandmom and granddad.

My granddad was a Methodist minister at a Magnolia Methodist church, which is in Harford County, Maryland.

It's pretty close to Edgewood Arsenal, Aberdeen Proving Ground military base.

He had a horse and buggy and the horse was named Lady Love.

But, you know, can you tell some stories about just some, some really good experiences you've had with the presidents that you've served, served under?

people probably connect with that feeling like this is surprising or this feels diminishing at times and that that rest in that space of existing where God wants you to be versus that personal ambition that's such a that's such a this is a hard place um we've we've gathered together it feels like a kind of juxtaposition to a really high moment like this morning yesterday we were like worshiping to the heavens it felt like a taste of heaven and it's so like electric I'm like this is incredible like I'm like holding my breath but then I know for many of our leaders going back to really tough contexts where it won't feel like that it won't feel like that on Sunday it won't feel like that in the week what what keeps fueling the fire for you

Well, first of all, I think recognizing the duality of human and Christian existence in that respect is really helpful.

So the Bible has the metaphor of the mountain, All the way through the Bible.

Actually, the Bible begins in a mountain and then there's Moses encounters God at a mountain.

That's where he leads the people back of the promised land.

There's loads of stuff about mountains, isn't there? That's the kind of place of encounter.

The mountain is beyond just the hills.

Would you want to say a little bit of what you see future leader generations in the church needing to thrive in this very uncertain world?