Mm-hmm

... what I was saying was, where possible, we should minimize school exclusions.

I did not say there was not a role for school exclusion in some circumstances.

And when I said school exclusions are failures, that was not to say that those who are excluding are failing.

It's that the system has failed those young people who have ended up being disruptive, having problems, unable to re- retain in school.

So that was my starting point.

We know there is a very strong correlation between school exclusion and crime.

So John, in terms of minimizing the exclusions, how do you think schools should go about doing that?