[laughs]

...

the, the vibes are high.

I mean, they really are.

And there's this sense of belief.

And I mean, you think back to year one of the Jeff Lebby era, they go 2 and 10, and it's rough.

I mean, you're coming off of multiple head coaches and, and consecutive seasons.

What's one more thing you're hearing, Talty?

So is LSU that good, or is A&M, were they just vastly overrated?

A&M looks bad.

They look bad in a lot of ways.

I mean, Marcel Reed, as I mentioned earlier, just does not look like the guy right now.

They're paying him multi-million dollars, and he is not delivering upon that value.

It's not just on him, to be clear.

When you lose the way they did, it's not just on one person.

Well, who's our next coach? Do we feel like it's it's over for Beamer at South Carolina?

So is LSU that good, or is A&M, were they just vastly overrated?

A&M looks bad.

Um, they look [laughs] bad in a lot of ways.

Um, I mean, Marcel Reed, as I mentioned earlier, like, just does not look like the guy right now.

Um, they're paying him, you know, multimillion dollars, and he is not delivering upon that value.

It's not just on him, to be clear.

When you lose the way they did, it's not just on one person.

I hated to see Alabama just roll over South Carolina, just because I like Shane Beamer, like, as a person, but now I'm starting to see all the posts on Twitter on, "Well, who's our next coach?" Do we feel like it's, it's over for Beamer at South Carolina?

What kind of pressure is Loxley facing to win this game?

You got to steal one like this, right? And I really, I mean, we talked about it, I think, previously.

I thought that Virginia Tech game was critical for Loxley.

And that obviously did not go the way that they wanted it to.

Now, I do think perhaps more of the blame should be on the defense, especially in the first half.

wasn't necessarily an offensive issue, but still it's all his program.

Uh, he's been there a long time and certain point at all falls on him.

Is this all in the quarterback or where do we divvy up the credit for the Bulldogs?

What are your thoughts on that move?

i think it's kind of same thing i think it's a kind of selfishness right it's like there's an expectation of i'm lane kiffin of course i should have a great plane and eventually he did get you know bigger and better stuff but again that's just i think the thoughtlessness that people they are described of you know wanting things his way very rarely being told no anytime he wanted something and you know, just that feeling like I deserve this, and you should give it to me.

Now, I will say if you're going to give the most positive interpretation of lane in that specific story, you know, lane can be a funny guy.

And he has, you know, even said to me, like, you know, people really know me think I'm really funny.

And so does he think like, was that him attending to make a joke, and he thought it would land differently of like, Hey, look at me.

instead, you know, the guy who just gave it to him is like, this guy's insulting me.

I just gave him this free thing.

Is Kentucky good or is Texas A&M bad? I

Were you, I guess, surprised at the level of cooperation that you got or the stories and stuff that you ferreted out in reporting this book?

I don't think so.

And I mean, and there will be people, Dennis would tell you that, you know, I can't believe you didn't put that thing in there or I can't believe you didn't do this because there's so much.

And so I didn't have a feeling that it would be more about how do I like, you know, tear it down first, you know, try to find it.

But I'll tell you, I mean, at the very beginning of any project of anyone that I've ever done.

So this is my third book.

And even though I've done them twice before, um, the first like month is always the most nerve wracking because you're, you know, you're sending out texts to different people and hoping that they're willing to talk to you.

there something you found out about lane that surprised you now that sounds like a dumb question because there's so much but but uh what you unearthed was there something there that really opened your eyes

Were you, I guess, surprised at the level of cooperation that you got or the stories and stuff that you ferreted out in reporting this book?

I don't think so.

And I mean, and there will be people, Dennis would tell you that, you know, I can't believe you didn't put that thing in there or I can't believe you didn't do this because there's so much.

And so I didn't have a feeling that it would be more about how do I like, you know, tear it down first, you know, try to find it.

But I'll tell you, I mean, at the very beginning of any project of anyone that I've ever done.

So this is my third book.

And even though I've done them twice before, um, the first like month is always the most nerve wracking because you're, you know, you're sending out texts to different people and hoping that they're willing to talk to you.

there something you found out about lane that surprised you now that sounds like a dumb question because there's so much but but uh what you unearthed was there something there that really opened your eyes

And then also kind of do you think he's learned anything from a lot of his mistakes in the past?

Human beings are flawed, right? And I think that you have to understand maybe where people have gone wrong to try and understand where they are today.

And so if you're selling this idea of you being a grown person and a changed person, an evolved person, then I think you have to understand what did you evolve from, right? And so that is where you have to kind of, I mean, Lane Kiffin's career, frankly, has been an odyssey.

And all the different things he's had to deal with, you know, if we were, not to give away spoilers of the movie, but like his boat probably would have sunk a million times in that kind of experience for him.

But yet he keeps finding a way to get back to land and get a new opportunity.

And so it's pretty interesting in that way.

Like, Do I think Lane has learned and evolved? In some areas, yes.

But like we always, I think there's just like a negative attitude when it comes to having chaos and negativity, but it's almost like sometimes it feels like it could be a good thing.

And I just wonder, you know, what it says about Lane Kiffin that Congress is currently debating a bill right now that might get passed that has what is known as this so-called Lane Kiffin Rule.

I think it's a great way of encapsulating who this guy is, and it's also, I think, important, Kaitlin, to understand that, you know, a year ago, uh, the House was trying to pass the SCORE Act, and people on the Hill told me that that bill took a hit and lost momentum because of Lane Kiffin, uh, because of the way that he left Ole Miss for LSU.

And I think it stopped some people in their tracks, like, "Wait a second, what's happening in college sports?" Like, "Why are we focusing on this?" And then coaches can leave their players and go, uh, on different teams during the middle of the playoffs.

So he's kind of been...

He's helped play a role in the SCORE Act losing momentum, and now I think he's helping this Protect College Sports Act gain momentum because people are seeing things that hi- he's doing and they think, "Man, there's a lot of chaos going on in college sports.

We gotta find a way to get our arms around it," and that, Lane Kiffin's a big part of that.

A- as you wrote this book, what was the most surprising thing that you learned about Lane Kiffin or that you heard about him?

I think what's kind of tough about Lane Kiffin is that at this, at a certain point, nothing surprises you anymore.

So just what is the feeling among these teams as they head into this top 10 showdown with so much at stake?

Yeah, it sounds like Lane Kiffin's been texting everyone in the city of Oxford this week.

Bumped into multiple people who have received text messages from Lane this week and what he thinks is going to happen in the game.

So there's certainly a lot of communication.

I think it's more one-sided than anything.

But certainly he's ready to go.

He's saying he's ready to go for Saturday.

What did you learn here on that story?

Robin, tell us about that a little bit, what you found about Lane's childhood and then, you know, maybe how that influenced the person, the complicated person he would become.

Yeah, I mean, this is the stuff that I think is the most fascinating.

And again, I understand there's probably more salacious, and there is more salacious and fun stuff later on in the book.

And I get that's where people are going to gravitate toward.

But I was just, again, when I set out to write this book, I was like, I want to understand why this guy is the way he is, right? That's the thing that I don't know that I ever fully understood.

And that's where I felt like I really was able to learn a lot about him And I think it is kind of, you know, how you grow up.

Sometimes it's about fathers and sons.

Do you believe that that's true, that Tennessee was maybe building a case against

How much pushback did you get from his side to not do the book and not release certain things about him?

I would say that continues, even though the book's out.

That didn't end just on Publish Day.

But, yeah, I mean, certainly, you know, Lane Kiffin's the guy who's got important, powerful people around him who are going to try to protect his reputation everywhere they can.

And one of the other things you have to know about Lane Kiffin to understand this is that He is used to controlling situations.

Now, it doesn't always work out.

Sometimes it spins out of his control, but he certainly likes to have control.

yeah there there are some Knoxville chapters what stood out in talking to people about Lane's time at Tennessee you're right it was it was short-lived but there are a ton of stories some some that I remembered as reading through as you wrote about him but what stood out in talking to people connected either to UT or to his time while he was at UT about that chapter of Lane's life

Robin, tell us about that a little bit, what you found about Lane's childhood and then, you know, maybe how that influenced the person, the complicated person he would become.

Yeah, I mean, this is the stuff that I think is the most fascinating.

And again, I understand there's probably more salacious, and there is more salacious and fun stuff later on in the book.

And I get that's where people are going to gravitate toward.

But I was just, again, when I set out to write this book, I was like, I want to understand why this guy is the way he is, right? That's the thing that I don't know that I ever fully understood.

And that's where I felt like I really was able to learn a lot about him And I think it is kind of, you know, how you grow up.

Sometimes it's about fathers and sons.

Do you believe that that's true, that Tennessee was maybe building a case against

Robin, tell us about that a little bit, what you found about Lane's childhood and then, you know, maybe how that influenced the person, the complicated person he would become.

Yeah, I mean, this is the stuff that I think is the most fascinating.

And again, I understand there's probably more salacious, and there is more salacious and fun stuff later on in the book.

And I get that's where people are going to gravitate toward.

But I was just, again, when I set out to write this book, I was like, I want to understand why this guy is the way he is, right? That's the thing that I don't know that I ever fully understood.

And that's where I felt like I really was able to learn a lot about him And I think it is kind of, you know, how you grow up.

Sometimes it's about fathers and sons.

Do you believe that that's true, that Tennessee was maybe building a case against

How much pushback did you get from his side to not do the book and not release certain things about him?

I would say that continues, even though the book's out.

That didn't end just on Publish Day.

But, yeah, I mean, certainly, you know, Lane Kiffin's the guy who's got important, powerful people around him who are going to try to protect his reputation everywhere they can.

And one of the other things you have to know about Lane Kiffin to understand this is that he is used to controlling situations.

Now, it doesn't always work out.

Sometimes it spins out of his control, but he certainly likes to have control.

yeah there there are some Knoxville chapters what stood out in talking to people about Lane's time at Tennessee you're right it was it was short-lived but there are a ton of stories some some that I remembered as reading through as you wrote about him but what stood out in talking to people connected either to UT or to his time while he was at UT about that chapter of Lane's life

Just kind of talk about some of those pitfalls that was maybe thrown your way to try to get this project stopped.

Yeah.

And it was interesting because it's never framed quite that way.

Right.

It's always like, well, we just were curious what you're doing.

And initially it started out very positive.

At least I thought it was positive.

John, I am curious, not saying that you know him psychologically in and out, but I am curious just your thoughts on how important this game is Saturday night in Oxford for him to walk away with a victory.

Just kind of talk about some of those pitfalls that was maybe thrown your way to try to get this project stopped.

Yeah.

And it was interesting because it's never framed quite that way.

Right.

It's always like, well, we just were curious what you're doing.

And initially it started out very positive.

At least I thought it was positive.

John, I am curious, not saying that you know him psychologically in and out, but I am curious just your thoughts on how important this game is Saturday night in Oxford for him to walk away with a victory.

Uh, do you agree with that?

One hundred percent, and the more he feels like he can't have it, the more he wants it.

Um, and that's, you know, core to who he is as a person.

Um, he's someone who is, you know, in love with the chase.

I think when he wins, he gets almost bored, uh, sometimes with some of those things.

But, like, the more you say, "No, Lane, you're not allowed to have that," he's like, "Watch me.

I will get that." And so sometimes when you see what we feel like are these, you know, wild Lane stories, certainly Ole Miss is one of them, it's a instance in which he was told no, he felt like he was going to win anyway, and ultimately was not able to.

Why did he get fired in Tuscaloosa? What was the official-- You know, we had heard he was out with a real estate agent doing the video, and he was late to the bus, and Saban's like, "Drive." Um, was it a culmination, a final straw sort of thing, or was it one event?

Is that indeed the case for Lane Kiffin?

Yeah, I think it's true, but I will also say that I think he does very much care how he is portrayed.

So I think as long as people are talking about him, I think he's good with that from a general concept standpoint.

But if you are speaking very negatively about him, he is going to care and he's going to push back.

And What's interesting about him is that he sees everything like he, you know, he'll see if you're on get up or if you're on sports center, if you're on, you know, local radio and he happens to be tuned in, like he'll see something and he'll text you and he'll let you know.

If you see the story you wrote, he might let you know if he feels like you misportrayed him or that you don't understand the situation.

So he consumes a lot of media and, and definitely cares about how media is portraying him.

Not available in all jurisdictions.

When you write a book like this, I wonder if you could explain to the audience the way that you have to balance Lane wanting to have his input here, obviously, and wanting his side of the story versus trying to tell the most honest and, you know... realistic version of events versus some of what we see now in docu-series that are being made where it's really just an athlete or a coach allowing access for, in exchange, getting to tell really just their version of whatever the events are that you're covering there.

Yeah, I mean, Lane had no editorial control over this book.

And I think Lane got to already tell his story.

There was a documentary that came out about Lane a year ago.

And that that was, I think, explained Lane explained things how he wanted to explain things.

So if you want Lane's full explanation of his life and career, there's a documentary out there that you can watch and you can enjoy that documentary.

This is I wanted to talk to a lot of people, including people that, you know, Lane loves and probably people Lane doesn't like.

If there's one thing in as surface level as you can describe here so that the audience can get the details in the book, what is the one story that you would tell people, no, this is the one that you need to read if you pick up this book?

What were, what were some of the actual more hardcore football conversations you have with people who have been around him?

Yeah.

I think some of that stuff was super cool.

And just the way that he, you know, like, I think what helped him and still helps him is like, you know, the fact that his dad was Monty Kiffin, that he, you know, his top mentor was Pete Carroll.

And then you add Nick Saban, three of the great defensive minds.

And like, He's able to pick up all the things that they do and don't like to deal with.

And I think he learns how to test.

bigger down the road, ultimate goals from Lane Kiffin.

What were, what were some of the actual more hardcore football conversations you have with people who have been around him?

Yeah, I think some of that stuff was super cool.

And just the way that he, you know, like, I think what helped him and still helps him is like, you know, the fact that his dad was Monty Kiffin, that he, you know, his top mentor was Pete Carroll.

And then you add Nick Saban, three of the great defensive minds.

And like, He's able to pick up all the things that they do and don't like to deal with.

And I think he learns how to test.

So like with Alabama in particular, like he knew very well what Nick Saban's rules for the defense were.

bigger down the road, ultimate goals from Lane Kiffin.

In your experience dealing with him in the trenches, where do you think his head at is at this week going into Oxford, Mississippi?

It feels like he's all over the place, to be quite honest, because I was getting calls and texts from people yesterday that he was reaching out to angry about things in the book.

So I know he's got, you know, he's focusing on a lot of different things.

Blaine, of course, publicly is trying to sell this idea of, you know, there's more pressure on Ole Miss and all these different things, but I think most people know the pressure is really on Blaine, knowing the way that he left, knowing the hard feelings that he still harbors toward Ole Miss, that Ole Miss still harbors toward him.

So there's a lot there to it.

But what's kind of interesting about Lane is that there always seems to be chaos swirling around him.

And so I think he's, I don't know if I'd say comfortable with it, but he's certainly used to it.

Can you take us inside some of those relationships with people in Oxford, which even weren't great when he was there thriving as the head coach of Ole Miss?

well you said some of the ugliness at the end that's every stop you know the Raiders the Tennessee the you know you you obviously covered Alabama as well uh and Ole Miss and you've been ingrained in the SEC um in your estimation was, was, and compare it to, you know, Saban and Alabama and how that ended, how, by how much is this the worst one or is it the worst one compared to Tennessee?

I think it's the worst.

And I think it's the worst because not only do you have that kind of explosive scene of Lane leaving.

And I was at the airport in Oxford the day he left.

And I mean, it was just middle fingers left and right being aimed at him and everyone associated with him.

I mean, it was it wasn't scary, but it was it was just a fascinating scene of, you know, month ago they loved this guy and now they hate him and how fast that can change in the sec so that i think that kind of image and all the videos that came out of it um were pretty unbelievable but it's also because i think there was more that happened behind the scenes like the tennessee thing was was ugly um in part because i think they felt like the rug got pulled out from under them that he was about to go on to do these great things Tennessee and then when you have the history of all the guys who came after him until Josh Heupel failed and then it makes it even worse and some of the shenanigans of telling guys not to go to classes and instead fall into USC like there was a lot happening there and I think the Ole Miss experience is that on steroids where he's trying to steal players to bring with him to Baton Rouge and He's trying to tell – I mean, he's telling people basically, if you don't get on this plane with me right now, you're not going to have a job.

He's not – initially did not want any of his assistant coaches to still coach Ole Miss in the playoff.

Cancel anytime.

And I'm not, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but it was almost as if that was a necessary step to make the next step, which was to exit.

And that's certainly how people in Oxford and I think around Ole Miss felt.

Uh, there was even one person I talked to who told me that after he watched that documentary, he texted another person and said, "He's leaving." Um, and that was the feeling that, you know, he needed some of that, you know, PR makeover, um, the, and needed to kind of shift off of this image of him being toxic and chaotic and all these different things, and to be able to show this idea of him being the grownup version of Lane Kiffin.

And what's interesting is in doing this book, and you read these previous profiles and things, like he's been trying to sell this idea for years, Paul.

I mean, I think, uh, after USC, after Alabama, down in FAU, he was doing some of these profiles of, uh, "I've actually grown up a lot." Um, I can think about, uh, and I, I mentioned in the book, there was a SI profile a- about Lane Kiffin in which he is then selling this idea of, "I'm a grown-up, more mature version of Lane Kiffin." That was a decade ago, Paul.

And so what happens is he sells this story.

Some people buy it, some people don't.

So you, you, uh, so much of the book is sourced, uh, about that, and I know there's no simple way in the time we have left, but how would you encapsulate what really happened, what was really going on, and what you learned and put in this book?