addition to your own committee.

Yes, exactly.

So, for example, one of the boards I sit on is we have a group that plans all of our transportation projects across the county.

Every city is involved.

The tribes are involved, the state, federal government, and we do that coordination there.

So and we looked at that meaning we had to reprioritize some things there was some funding that got cut and we had to figure out well which project do we support is it a road project in blaine is it something in sumas what do we do when we come together and we do that later that evening i went to meet with the fire commissioners so all the fire districts across the county their elected commissioners have a meeting a lot of the fire chiefs are there too and so i wanted to hear from them about what's going on with the fire districts what are things looking like for staffing for funding what needs do they have uh from the county so the days can be long and they're varied um so we deal with a lot of different things i enjoy and those meetings then help me to figure out what is it that we should be prioritizing on county council and helps to inform things when we're voting on budgets we're voting on policy decisions So a lot of it is listening.

And so, for example, later today, Councilmember Stremler and I will be at the Linden Library.

John?

Why did you move on from some of those roles? Did you feel some frustration in some of those? Or did you kind of have a goal in mind at the end and these were stepping stones to get there?

Yeah, I think it was mainly because I felt that I got to a point where I was in a role where I'd learnt a lot and I was starting to get into a repetitive mode and I was keen to do something new and challenge myself.

So I started in private legal practice.

And after six years, I decided to take six months unpaid leave, backpack around South America with my little sister.

And there I met the Peruvian Environmental Law Society when I was in Lima.

And I was completely inspired by the work they were doing, confronting the Sendero Lemuroso at the time.

you know, the terrorist group, the Shining Path and everything.

Well, if people don't like it, they can remove me,

addition to your own committee

yes exactly so for example one of the boards i sit on is we have a group that plans all of our transportation projects across the county Every city is involved, the tribes are involved, the state, federal government, and we do that coordination there.

So we looked at that, meaning we had to reprioritize some things.

There was some funding that got cut and we had to figure out, well, which project do we support? Is it a road project in Blaine? Is it something in Sumas? What do we do when we come together and we do that? later that evening i went to meet with the fire commissioners so all the fire districts across the county their elected commissioners have a meeting a lot of the fire chiefs are there too and so i wanted to hear from them about what's going on with the fire districts what are things looking like for staffing for funding what needs do they have uh from the county so The days can be long and they're varied.

So we deal with a lot of different things.

I enjoy it.

And those meetings then help me to figure out what is it that we should be prioritizing on county council and helps to inform things when we're voting on budgets, we're voting on policy decisions.

John?

As a former Secretary General of CITES, why is there, from your perspective, such a problem or gap in legislation and cooperation? And why do you identify a new protocol under the UNTOC as the best solution?

When I started with CITES and Secretary General back in 2010, we were confronting a surge in wildlife trafficking, in particular as it affected the African elephant and rhino, but other species as well.

And what was apparent to me at that time is that I was responsible for a convention that was regulating trade in wildlife.

But it was confronting transnational organized crime that was completely decimating certain species across the globe.

And what were we going to do about that? We were a trade-related treaty.

We had neither the mandate, the capacity, nor the resources to tackle transnational organized crime.

So I, with the team, devoted huge effort to engaging with those entities that were transnational responsible for, had the mandate, the resources, the know-how to tackle transnational organized crime.

We've heard from Francis what a protocol can mean for South Africa in particular, What do you think a protocol could mean to other countries like those which hold large wildlife populations like rhino and elephant herds? What could a protocol really mean in practice to countries like those?