I guess first question off of that, like what was the difference between going from being a staffer to being a lobbyist and working on the other side for a trade association? What did you expect a lobbyist to be and what was it actually?

Maybe it's a little easy.

Maybe I can sort of flip that around and just walk through sort of how I got to the trade association and sort of my process of transitioning off the hill, because I think it's it is instructive to some of that, you know.

For me, I was a 10-year ONI staffer, and I was also not a lawyer.

So a typical path for a lot of ONI staffers, a lot of them are lawyers, is looking at going to one of the congressional investigations practices at the large firms, which is a totally logical step.

A lot of other ONI staff sometimes transition to think tanks or groups like Heritage or others.

didn't really see myself going either of those directions.

How do you bring a bunch of competitors together to agree on a policy stance and move forward with that and go and lobby on their behalf?