The guy who I think, I think I heard a rumor that when you were working at the FTC, you commuted on a skateboard.

[laughs] I cannot confirm or deny that, that happened.

Uh, but it wouldn't be surprising to some of my students.

Um, so that, but that, that was kind of the fir- I d- I think the first time somebody actually labeled this as a movement, it was in a kind of derogatory, "Look at these funny kids, they think they've discovered something new," but it's really just the equivalent of, you know, bringing back vinyl records.

Um, it started around, I think, 2016, uh, 2017 maybe.

There was a new Generation, I think, of thinkers, uh, that I think had been through the great financial crisis.

They just didn't have the bedrock faith in unfettered markets to always do the right thing that kind of characterized the 1990s and 2000s era, I think.

Sure.