So tell us more about the distinguishing factors between what most people understand capitalism, free markets, profit mode to be, and the brand of conscious capitalism that you've championed throughout your career.

A lot of people, when they finally understand conscious capitalism, have told me, says, I don't really understand why you call this conscious capitalism.

This is just capitalism.

And my response is exactly, it's conscious capitalism.

But we put it in a framework that fewer people are gonna hate because We're seeing that business can be and frequently is driven by a higher purpose.

And the higher purpose is to create value for customers and creating values in a way that makes the world a better place.

And so I think sometimes the capitalists are their own worst enemies.

system

As far as that type of a person that obviously doesn't have a Whole Foods level of success, what do you think they should be thinking about as far as their own wealth protection or wealth development?

Well, first, of course, if you want to create great wealth, the best way to do it is to own businesses, a business or businesses, and generally concentrate it.

And then that compounds, in a sense, over a long period of time, and that's how large wealth is built.

If you look at almost... all the super wealthy people, they got it through building something and some type of business.

And from real estate to computers to software to, I mean, Jeff Bezos, the richest man in the world, he built it through the Internet.

And there's been so many different strategies.

And as the world technologically evolves, there's always going to be new strategies like the next thing, the next big thing that will always be coming along.

Well, so I guess in a sense, the idea is that there's this moral virtue to capitalism, that it's not this, you know, and it's that most people say, hey, to be really successful as a capitalist, you have to be in this dog-eat-dog kind of world or environment as compared to saying, you know, there's a moral virtue here.

And then you're like, oh, well, is this bringing me joy now? So how do you...

We have to introduce another character to the story.

I mean, we talked about the ego, but part of our ego is what I and others call the internal critic, right? The ego really doesn't, it judges everyone.

The ego's constantly judging.

That's the part that's envious.

That's the part that's angry.

That's the part that somebody cuts you off in traffic.

Of course, it's

I'm intrigued as to when did your curiosity and consciousness and spirituality begin? Is it something that was always there since you were born, or was it something that you discovered over time, and how?

Even as a child, I mean, I think most children have some kind of mystical relationship with part of their being and their, their imaginations, their, their love and the innocence in children.

Always felt a, a connection to the divine, even as a, as a, as a child.

And then it was more traditional.

I was raised as a Christian, so traditional Christianity.

The deeper spiritual awakening occurred when I was like-- The first time I actually took a psychedelic drug, LSD, back when I was twenty in university, and that sort of knocked me off the path my parents had planned for me.

My parents wanted me, possibly your parents wanted the same thing, for me to be a professional.

Mm-hmm

Well, look,

it can be a little bit of a sensitive topic.

But one of the first things we, our main discussions, actually, the three of us had when we were setting out on this was...

So you'll notice like most of the big space companies like Airbus or Thales Linear Space, whatever, as typically space and defense are in the title even of the companies in terms of even how they're incorporated.

And we always knew, I mean, I mean, space is, again, it's a global theater of operations.

It's always going to be, it's a sensitive area of operations.

So we always knew the dual use piece was going to be intrinsic to this.

Well,

And now, John Mackey takes the TED stage.

Most people live in a win-lose paradigm where self-interest is the thing they think of the most.

There's a better way: a win-win-win paradigm.

And this is more than just a game metaphor.

It's a philosophy of human interaction that seeks mutual benefit for everyone.

I had a major epiphany in the early days of Whole Foods that helped me wake up to this idea of a win-win-win way of life.

It was Memorial Day 1981.

With the low cost provider.

Correct.

And so they tried to cut their costs.

And they spent less money in building out their boxes.

They looked more like warehouses.

They were more sterile.

They went with cheap lighting.

I don't know if you want to talk about this or not.

In his talk, Whole Foods co-founder John Mackey takes us back to the night his first store was destroyed and how a community rising from the mud inspired his lifelong philosophy of win-win-win, doing good for yourself, the community, and the world around you.

Most people live in a win-lose paradigm where self-interest is the thing they think of the most.

There's a better way, a win-win-win paradigm, and this is more than just a game metaphor.

It's a philosophy of human interaction that seeks mutual benefit for everyone.

I had a major epiphany in the early days of Whole Foods that helped me wake up to this idea of a win-win-win way of life.

It was Memorial Day, nineteen eighty-one.

The very first Whole Foods we ever had went through the worst flood that Austin, Texas, had experienced in over seventy years.

[laughs]

Union clerks get that after three months.

Our employees voted 86:5 against unionization.

They have a right to say no and should not be coerced into paying union dues.

Unions make workplaces about us versus them.

At Whole Foods, we have employee committees where disagreements are aired and settled by consensus.

Our teams get to choose who to hire and fire.

They get bonuses that are linked to productivity.

The Berkeley Co-Op didn't, and he's not going to make the same mistake.