I know you said it was a certain response, but what systematic factors have kept most states at level one? And why does this become sort of the default mode of operating for so many states?

There's really no glue that holds together most governments from administration to administration.

So it's not as if we're keeping score, we've got a scoreboard and the new leadership comes in and now we get to see if they can move the score faster or in more innovative ways or whatever.

What usually happens is the new leadership leaders come in and often, and I've seen this again and again, just happened in the state of Washington, where the new leader comes in, the first thing they do is blow up the measures that the previous leader put into place.

Same thing happened to Martin O'Malley in Maryland.

It's very common.

So there's no fundamental framework to understand how are we doing and are we getting better and where are our problems? So what happens is we have this whack-a-mole effect where People are reacting and lawmakers come in and they have these ideas and little nooks and crannies that they want to make some change in the law.

What do successful results-driven efforts have in common in your mind from what you've experienced, regardless of political party or specific ideology?

I know you said it was a certain response, but what systematic factors have kept most states at level one? And why does this become sort of the default mode of operating for so many?

There's really no glue that holds together most governments from administration to administration.

So it's not as if we're keeping score, we've got a scoreboard and the new leadership comes in and now we get to see if they can move the score faster or in more innovative ways or whatever.

What usually happens is the new leadership leaders come in and often, and I've seen this again and again, just happened in the state of Washington, where the new leader comes in, the first thing they do is blow up the measures that the previous leader put into place.

Same thing happened to Martin O'Malley in Maryland.

It's very common.

So there's no fundamental framework to understand how are we doing and are we getting better and where are our problems? So what happens is we have this whack-a-mole effect where People are reacting and lawmakers come in and they have these ideas and little nooks and crannies that they want to make some change in the law.

What do successful results-driven efforts have in common in your mind from what you've experienced, regardless of political party or specific ideology?