Yeah

…uh, while I was in Chicago, um, John Kirkland came and gave an address to the Chicago Surgical Society.

Was at the Palmer House, which is a famous hotel in terms of, uh, uh, the election of '68, you might remember.

So, uh, but Kirkland announced th- that Levie's contribution to pediatric heart surgery was he painstakingly, uh, outlined where the bundle his was.

So if you - and his paper on that comes out at the end, the, I think the late »50s or maybe early »60s.

Because what Kirkland was saying was when open heart surgery began, and- and it really began in Minnesota, uh, af- after the first ASD was done in Philadelphia, but the- the- the, uh, paper by, uh, the work done by Lillehei.

If you got heart block in 1956, the patient was in big trouble because there were no implantable pacemakers.

W- Do you have any thoughts on, uh, what m- what makes a good mentor?