It just, it happens.

Exactly.

So if I end up not seeing somebody come off mute and I talk over you for a second, apologies in advance.

But so yeah, this is a big one, and I'm clearly passionate about it, as you probably saw, Brady, through some of the exchanges I was having.

The most recent one was with Luke Gromen, and I think it was a pretty thoughtful exchange from both of us.

And if I were gonna try to summarize it, I would say, to elaborate on what you were just saying, Brady, we all know the why.

We all know why politicians don't want spending constraints.

Great.

Yeah, yeah.

I, I take a big, like, big-picture takeaway for me here is- I think a lot of us have, like, the old school mentality, either consciously or unconsciously, of like, you get out of debt.

When you have, like, a good quarter for yourself or your business, whatever, pay down your debt.

And like maybe there are cases where you should do that.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea all the time.

But clearly these companies are not ...

Amazon's not like, "We had a good quarter, let's get rid of that debt." This is a permanent part of their capital structure.

[laughs]

What does this really signal about the broader institutional adoption and some of that appetite from these major firms?

Yeah.

So, I think Morgan Stanley getting into Bitcoin, Goldman, as you said, and other institutional players is a huge story.

It was basically absent from a year like 2022.

Why do I bring up 2022? That was the last year that Bitcoin had a pretty difficult year.

There was a drop of roughly 70% peak to trough.

This year, well, late 2025 to 2026, there was a drop of maybe 50% peak to trough.

So walk us through some of the macro indicators that could currently support that view.

What do you tell the folks who wanted to love Bitcoin, but they're seeing it sitting at $65,000, $70,000, going nowhere.

Yeah, good to see you, Nicole.

First off, would have liked to be there in person, but the weather had other plans.

A little tricky to get around New York today.

Good job by you for doing that.

So I would say a couple things.

Firstly, I think we do have to just be honest about the fact that most people did not predict a 50% price decline.

In a few years, it'll crash to what?

okay so now john as we turn to you here what do you watch for now for some upside catalysts as we approach a new year a reset and hopefully some more easing regulatory conditions

Yeah, great to be here.

So I would say, you know, firstly, prediction wise, I think people like myself need to eat a little bit of crow because I would have got the year end prediction wrong.

I thought for sure we would be something higher than the 80s or 90s or 100K.

So I'll just start by saying that.

But I think when you look at the macro backdrop for 2026, I think it is just hugely supportive.

And if you contrast it with prior bear markets in Bitcoin, things like inflation, interest rates, central bank balance sheets, federal spending, valuation metrics for Bitcoin, market access with things like the ETFs, institutional promotion and institutional adoption, they're just all better now.

And so, John, to go back to you here, I mean, how does this then evolve and hopefully provide a cushion for some of the Bitcoin market dynamics we're expecting in the new year?