If you could also touch on that, that would be terrific.

Yeah, I sort of look beyond the financials, of course, and to me, the most interesting part of the role, which I sort of ended up in.

So, yes, I was a banker for 15 years, a lot of which was in capital raising, whether debt or equity.

But again, it was financially driven from the modelling to the storytelling and to prepping companies that I worked with.

When I arrived at the Singapore Exchange, which had just gone public as the head of corporate strategy, all the communications functions, particularly the external ones, came under that umbrella of corporate strategy.

And I was the natural person to develop the IR role because we were a listed company, but also because of my banking background.

And it struck me fairly quickly that over and above just financial reporting, as you started with Mark, actually, there was a lot more to it.

uh a board that genuinely listens and and is open to engaging with the ir function in a in a positive and and productive way you know how what would be your advice to an iro and an ir team uh that in terms of how they can navigate that and maybe understand the dynamics of their board and maybe take positive steps towards being more engaged with them and adding value at that level.