What are the practical things to start off doing? What would you encourage us to do?

Well, first thing I'd say is that just normalise discussions around gambling harm.

Um, What I mean, though, is that the industry's normalized discussion around gambling, but the aspects of harm aren't.

So to have a conversation with colleagues, so even a conversation, are you aware of how gambling might impact someone? That could be something that could be done.

But simply, I think if I look at an organization, I've always believed if you can put up leaflets, that can highlight this.

It starts to create an environment.

So some form of visual controls, if we use this sort of terminology, maybe.

What was your way into road safety? Who were the people that kind of supported you and paid attention when this issue just, when you started to draw attention to it?