When you were You know, when you were put into special ed or even when you were two and kind of exploring all of this, at what point did other people recognize and put a label to, oh, he's dealing with ADD or he's very artistic or any of these aspects that you recognize now were already there?

I would say the hurtful boxes I was placed in were mostly...

the way people talked about me in the room, So lots of administrators would always talk about me and I would sit there and they would say, he's doesn't play well with others.

He's not trying hard enough and all these things.

And I would be in the room and I would be pretty infuriated by that.

You know, ADHD, mostly, mostly stupid and, and, you know, like he's, you know, dumber than a box of rocks and certain things that were, so demoralizing um also in the same you know breath i was defiant and when you told me those things it it drove uh it drove a fire in me that was relentless so as a football player or as a you know even a kid who defended himself i was tough you know There were kids in the inner city that fought me and I won, you know, there were, because I was in a public school.

Eventually I got kicked out in third grade and well asked to leave, whatever.

Where was the turning point for you when this started to become really, where the gifts really became clear, where you could see that positive side, where you could really start to make things work for you?