So tell us more about the 3x3 world and what it actually is and how it relates to taking breaks.

So let me just start with the rule itself.

The 3.3 rule states the most productive workday consists of working up to three hours at a time, followed by a 30% recovery period.

So the up to three hours is the first three, the 30% recovery period in mathematical forms is a 0.3.

So that's why it's the 3.3 rule.

So there's a couple reasons why it came about.

And it's all based on studies and sciences.

Oh no. It's like,

So let's talk about your business because you built this big accounting and tax practice and you did that by working hard, right?

I do feel like I worked hard.

Yeah.

How'd that turn out? Right now it turned out well, but boy, there was a time period.

It was, it didn't look great, Rocky.

It was about 2011.

So I'd figured out the punchline is the more hours I work, the more money I made.

Going for a 30-minute walk?

And why is that an opportunity that you see as a fruitful one for yourself? And what are you seeing in that industry?

Yeah, a couple of things.

One, Insight Tax has been good to me.

And I'm at a point in my life where I don't necessarily have to work to put food on the table.

And so you kind of get to move into passion projects when that type of financial change happens in your life.

And Take Breaks Work Better, the book that came out, I really believe that if we can handle the workday more productively and give ourselves the permission that we need to give ourselves, the world would be a better place as we spend more time with humans, specifically the people we love the most.

And that's the kind of main vision behind the 3.3 rule and the take breaks, work better concepts.

Aren't there people in the work world, not just the military, who are built like her that can do it and they do just fine doing it?

Right.

And I wish I could say, 'cause again, I did mention I'm stupid and a dimwit I wish I could say I flipped the switch immediately and the next day I, you know, worked normal hours and came home and ate dinner with the family.

Uh, it wasn't a flip of the switch, but it was a journey, and I committed at that moment, "I'm gonna figure this out." Uh, how do I say no in a better way? How do I establish boundaries with clients? How do I improve the profitability of my business? 'Cause those are all kind of factors that really were leading to me just working the crazy hours.

How do I have a successful business while not leaving my wife at home feeling like she's a single parent? Because we did mutually agree to raise our children together and have a life together.

And yeah, when she's only seeing me when I'm sleeping at night for three hours, uh, which most of the time she was just asleep anyways, it's like, "Yeah, I, I see you on Sunday, cool." Um, not, not much of a support.

Uh, and so during that process of how do I figure this out, my reticular activator was heightened, right? And so I noticed science about certain things about recovery.

I would do Google searches on what do people do to find balance, which is work-life balance, not a phrase I believe in, but it's the phrase most people use.

You're right.

yeah as you might know uh john car washing is is when it's when it's open during operating hours on a on a especially a busy day it doesn't slow down right so the approach you advocate for is built across different business types but like i mentioned the wash tunnel doesn't stop for for anybody's rest schedule so how does knowing when uh when to not work translate when you're running a business that operates on a consistent flow of traffic like car washing, as I just explained.

Yeah, so there's two hats we have to think about, right? Like, as the owner of a car wash, you're not just...

watching cars get like onto the conveyor belt, right? You have other stuff you're doing.

So the first element, we want to talk about that.

And then we can talk about what I would call the line workers.

And whether you're the owner and you're doing both, it's still different hats.

So there was a study done by Voucher Cloud and Rescue Time and a few others, and all of them eerily came to the same result.

And as you know, the trap that a lot of them fall into as a new business owner is they want to do everything, every job themselves, and some never fully let go, right? So what is the first break that you encourage them to take And what usually stops them from wanting to take a break?

Sure.

So that means there's five hours a day that a worker's sitting there not being productive, and it's like, okay, well, that number stinks.

That seems expensive, so what's the solution? Um, our brains are not designed to work and focus for eight hours straight.

In fact, the Princeton Neurological Institute had done a s- research study, and they tracked people's brainwaves, and they found that our brains have two s- natural states, a state of focus and a state of distraction, and our brain naturally cycles between the two.

And so sometimes we find ourselves in this scenario, which is why these people are working g- only producing 2 hours and 15 minutes a day-

[laughs]

Um, so you add a bunch of bonuses, right? And so we have a bunch of bonuses running.

You can go to takebreaksworkbetter.com/preorder.

So do you want to talk about a little bit of the science behind what you or maybe go into 3.3 rule?

Yeah, for sure.

Let's get into that.

And I think what's interesting here, I'll give you the science that as the owners of their companies, what's going to relate to them.

And then I have another thing that can relate.

because it relates a little bit differently.

And I'm sure some people listening when I say this can be like, okay, I can see how that helps me, but my workers on the site, they don't need that type of scenario.

Are you taking your breaks?

At a really broad level, do you think that we just learned from bad experience of people burning out? Or what do you think is kind of driving this generally?

I mean, I could just share my opinion on it.

I don't have enough data to back this up.

But if I look at hustle culture, because it is still ingrained in so much of society and there's still people who fight that guilt, uh, I remember I have a Substack group, and a guy responded.

He's like, I want to do this.

I just don't know how to get past the guilt.

He's like, I can see the science.

work what were the challenges what happened like just give us a bit of the story as to how you embedded it in your own company

Why don't you share a little bit about that?

Yeah.

And so I want to make sure I share the full picture so people can really get how it built up.

I had figured out this magic formula for making money.

And the way my day looked was I'd get to work at about 5 a.m., And between 5 a.m. and 9 a.m., I would do client work.

And then from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., I do all the client-facing stuff because that's when clients are active and responsive.

And then from 5 p.m. to about 2 a.m., I would do more tax work.

Isn't that interesting how that works? Why don't you talk a little bit about the journey to discovering the 3.3 rule?