John Bosco, what about the question of participation in society? When we look at, uh, when we look at that big question of equal participation in public life, how close have we got to it, and how f- much further do we need to go in terms of sign language, in terms, you were mentioning deaf migrants there, in terms of making sure that, you know, all parts of our community are, are represented and included?

That's a good question.

We'd need a long answer, but I'll try and bri- be as brief as possible.

Yes.

Uh, obviously we've tried to have participation in w- wider society.

That's been a, a goal for a long time.

Has it been achieved? I would say no.

And do you feel that you have seen the benefit of the research in changing policy, in changing attitudes, in changing how we understand? That even though it's not perfect and there's still these gaps and problems, it's considerably different from even the way it was, say, 30 years ago.