Now, this is an extraordinary trajectory, no?

Yes.

Um, she made her name, I think, as an outstanding advocate in a quite curious circumstance or a case that Pat Mackey, an early, uh, and very active union member, uh, union leader in Queensland, brought against one of the newspapers, um, for defamation.

And, uh, she was, I think, passed the brief very late in the day, and she took it on, and she ran the case, and, uh, it was mixed success, shall we say.

But others were there who saw her, including, um, I think it might have been Clyde Cameron, a, an instrumental high-up la- mem- member of the Federal Labor Party, who witnessed her efforts and was later very supportive of her, uh, promotion to the position of Solicitor General and later to the High Court.

And to what extent did that hem her in at all?

I don't think so.

Um, it's surely a mark of our maturity as a democracy that although judges are appointed by the government of the day, we do not necessarily believe the judges will do what the governments expect them to do or hope they will do, or merely respond to the fact that they have been appointed by the government.