Hmm.

It's essentially cutting off awareness, that awareness from unbearable pain, terror, horror that can overwhelm the capacity to cope.

Um, and it has a utility in terms of its adaptiveness with survival and tolerance, but it comes at a emotional cost, which is, um, essentially an in- an interpersonal sacrifice.

Just to distinguish, you know, I think McWilliams, she uses extreme dissociation as an example, but the, the difference is that dissociation is a normal reaction that we can all commonly experience as well.

It's a normal reaction to trauma, and it exists on a continuum from normal to devastating.

And she cited Dr. Ira Brenner in one of the research, uh, contemporary clinical literature that suggests that dissociation is far more prevalent as a psychological defense, um, than what earlier psychoanalytic theory had originally assumed.

And so what Dr. Brenner's work highlighted is that the dissociation itself, it exists on a continuum.

And, and as a therapist, you're, you're listening to this, and you may be thinking like, uh, "This is nothing to do with you." Like, "What are you talking about?" Right? Or if you're a friend or a family member of someone going through that.