But for the average person, is it reasonable to put this burden on them, or should we be thinking more broadly about collective institutions that society should offer to, to give people a, um, maybe a bit of an easier sense of how they can have meaning in their life?

Yes and no. Um, [chuckles] because, because yes, on the one hand, I do think that as society, we need to be more clear in giving people guidance in how to live a meaningful and purposeful life, um, and where we need to give, for example, more, um, education.

Uh, I think it is key for-- in, in our education system that with young people, children, that we already teach them and help them, and we give them skills how to live a more meaningful life.

We-- I also think it's responsibility from a government to, to enable people to live a more meaningful life and to learn how to deal with frustrations if you can't.

However, I'm not at the same time saying that there should be like a, like a form of conformism, uh, of, of conformity because-- or imposing a tradition.

That's something very different.

Because this is one of the things that I discovered in my research, that there are three different approaches how to find meaning in life, to different ways how to find out for yourself what's meaningful.

But maybe for the uninitiated, what makes transactional analysis different to other approaches to psychotherapy?

Can you tell us about this?

Yeah.

So it's a term that I've started to kind of develop myself because, um, whe- whenever I talk about my approach to extremism and saying, "Well, le- let's really find out why do people start, uh, with, with, with such radicalization? What are the existential roots? So let's go deeper." Then a lot of people are saying, "Yeah, well, that's unique, that approach you do." I'm like, "Is it?" Um, but they s- they use terms like love, and a lot of people have used the word love.

Um, uh, like for example, Martin Luther King has been using that word a lot.

Um, you also have in the field of psychotherapy, and that's where as a psychotherapist I've done a lot of research on that.

We usually use the term empathy.

But the term empathy, that is still a little bit too, too superficial because that literally comes from, uh, pathos, feeling, and em is with, so feeling with.

How might you approach a conversation with them so that it was constructive rather than destructive?