Give us your perspective.

Yeah, Scott, it's great to be with you, and, uh, thank you for all of your leadership and your strong, powerful voice in support of the Jewish community and Israel.

Uh, it is highly noticed, and I'm grateful for it.

And I'm, I'm gonna tell you quite bluntly, we're now in the midst of a full-on fight inside the Democratic Party for the soul of the party and for whether or not American Jews can continue to be part of it, and that's because the antisemitism right now coming from the base of the party, including through the newest candidates, some being elected, some waiting, of course, to, after their primaries to get fully elected, and we'll see, but some in, in safe blue seats, and they'll get into Congress.

Uh, they are the leading tip of the spear of what is a movement to try to tell American Jews that to continue to participate in the Democratic Party, we must drop our concern for and care for the State of Israel, and that's just deeply antisemitic.

Uh, it creates an atmosphere of incitement.

We have seen antisemitism off the charts here in the United States, and we can get into that data if you want.

American Jews have voted heavily Democratic for f- for, uh, 100 years.

American Jews have voted heavily Democratic for 100 years.

Yeah, you know, Scott, for the audience, just a little tiny background on Jewish participation in the Democratic Party.

Not only, as we discussed, about three quarters typically vote for the Democratic nominee for president, but the overwhelming preponderance of members of Congress who are Jewish are Democrats.

I think it's like 28 to four right now.

It's always been that kind of lopsided amount.

Throughout history and progressive organizations, Jewish Americans have have been leading voices in my piece in the free press i talk about two luminaries in jewish political life ruth bader ginsburg and lewis brandeis the first jewish supreme court justice and then bader ginsburg of course more recently those two individuals were zionists proudly zionist proudly pro-israel and very progressive leading lights of the left Today, they would not be allowed into the progressive movement because of their overt Zionism.

Today, they would be castigated and they would be shunned and told, drop that Israel support that you've got if you want to participate.

If you were a Jewish Democrat in Michigan, how would you be viewing this whole Piker-El-Sayed back and forth here, Joel? Yeah.

If they can't get their oil out, they, they can't export anything, how does this country survive?

You know, I, I, I think, uh, as, as we've gotten to know each other over the years, you'll know that I'm a bit contrarian, and I'm gonna put on my contrarian hat here on the conventional wisdom about what's happening with Iran, which is that, uh, my view is that the Iranians, uh, have survived, uh, the last round or so for sure, but they've taken a massive beating.

And there's this conventional wisdom argument in Washington now that, uh, they have won and we have lost.

And I, the last time I checked, a, a country that has tens of thousands of troops and, and military armada arrayed against a country and has pummeled that country is not the one that's lost, right? Like, the Iranians have not defeated the American military.

What we have not yet done is achieve all of our objectives.

And so I think now we're in this war of attrition moment where, uh, the president's got this two-tiered policy of pressure on, on Iran.

You've got the sanctions pressure, they call it the maximum pressure, uh, in the last administration.

Well, which is it?

What do you think is remarkable about this face-to-face meeting?

I got to tell you, Adi, it is a real stunner.

Uh, it is shuttle diplomacy of a, of a nature, uh, but it's also a political move by the president.

Basically, Bibi Netanyahu is walking in between Itamar Ben-Gvir on his far right and Donald Trump, the person he needs an endorsement from to stay in office in the elections on October 27th.

And so for Kushner, uh, this is a new Hamas leader.

Uh, he's been around for a few weeks.

He was the deputy before.

Well, every president [laughs] has tried and failed, yeah.

do the opposite? Can they make it a referendum election? Well, I

mean, by nature it's going to be a referendum because this is just the way the cycle works.

When you have the incumbent president, it's the opposite party running in the congressional that always gets a chance to say, look at how horrible the president is.

And typically we see a flip of the chamber.

So it will be a referendum just by nature.

But I agree with Matt's point about the campaign finance.

But, you know, campaign finance only takes it so far.

Some of this is going to be long-term projects, but they are actually doing what they can to alleviate in the short term through additional transportation routes.

anybody forgives me for being cynical, but thank

you.

Look, I could call President Trump right now the giveaway king.

Let's be clear.

He does not need to do this.

There is no security impetus for giving technology like this to Saudi.

In fact, this is diplomatic loss for the United States because...

Aside from the transactionalism and that Trump likes Mohammed bin Salman and the Saudis have been good to him, why do this? What's the bull case for this?

Just say that again.

Any Jew, and I'll say it again, and I'll say it a thousand times, any Jew, and I've said it behind the scenes, and I've failed to convince enough people, unfortunately, we can talk about that.

Any Jew who communicates a sense of self-pride as a Jew or evinces an affinity for and a love of Israel, they are out.

They are kicked out of the progressive tent on the hard left.

not progressive overall i still we should debate we're going to discuss this i hold out some hope a little bit of hope but i got to tell you that whole base that bernie base uh they don't want jews like me around uh they don't want jews like you around they don't want jews who like being jewish who talk about it who bring it into their daily life who visit israel who are proud of being identified with the jewish life that also has israel as part of its its uh its dynamism and uh you know i gotta say i'll just add one more thing i'm not a a jew who has never been critical of my own side you know i was also a founder of j street in 2008 i was its founding political director the whole goal of that was to try to create political space for peace in the middle east and that included criticizing the actions of the israeli government but that's not what's happening right now about you What's happening right now is criticism of Jews, period.

And your opening segment, I think, just highlighted how utterly insane and crazifying, if that's a word, being an anti-Semite can make a person.

And so they just go into Babylon and they say things like the conflating Joshes.

What the hell is happening there that he is standing up there legitimizing people who hate Jews? What is happening there?

Go ahead and tell us what you told the, the media outlet.

Yeah, look, uh, at this conference, there was a lot of discussion about American foreign policy and national security and, and America's role in the world, and it was on the heels of this real bloody internal fight we had in the party over Graham Platner up in Maine.

And for me, m- watching the, the Maine dynamic and how essentially Bernie Sanders and the Sanders operation created Graham Platner and then pushed him forward into the Democratic, uh, lane, even after a Nazi tattoo was revealed, was extremely distressing, and I've been publicly condemning it.

Uh, we saw so many Democratic members out there advancing and advocating for him, and I thought, you know, really, like, to have these kinds of people right now, this crisis moment in time for United States domestically, for our role in the world, our relationship with Israel, all of that, to see the progressive base essentially honing in on supporting candidates who are deeply hostile to Israel and American Jews is just a bridge too far, and I think it violates the principles of the Democratic Party, of the progressive movement historically, as I understand it.

And, uh, of course, is highly offensive to me as an American Jew whose family's been here for over a century to see a, a, a party e- eat its own right now, and I p- I believe that Senator Sanders is leading the charge, and I feel like it's time to speak out aggressively about this now before it's too late.

I- is there any chance of getting back to that paradigm?

paradigm?Well, you know, Josh, right now we're in the middle of that fight.

Uh, and it is, it is becoming very clear publicly, and it's, it's getting bloody.

But what was your take on this whole thing, Joe Rubin?

John, this has been a horrifically awful, no good, bad, lousy week to be a Democrat, okay? So let me just put that there.

This has been one of the worst weeks that we've had.

And seeing that Yosemite Sam character do that video, otherwise known as Graham Platner, just topped it all off.

And I think, look, Axe is right.

Look, here's what we just saw with Plattner.

This was a fake candidate, all right? Let's just be very direct.

Absolutely, 100%

Israelis are becoming aware, and it is a national security issue

for them, isn't it? It totally is.

And look, when you think about Israel's position in the region, the Middle East, the foundation of its power, of course, is the IDF and sort of the Israeli security establishment.

They look to the relationship with America as the foundation of their prowess, right? Not the core reason that they're strong.

It's still the Israeli people, but the American bilateral security assistance relationship and intel sharing relationship and all of that is fundamental to Israel's security position.

You add to that, in diplomatic spaces, the support that Israel has received from the United States at the UN Security Council, for example, in vetoing resolutions and in standing up for Israel rhetorically.

That matters.

What's the chance of success of changing Israel's image? Oh, you've

Mm-hmm

... from Republicans about the question of Israel, a beating for the Obama deal, a sellout, uh, of American, uh, prestige and, uh, pallets of cash and secret side deals, and you name it.

All of that.

And now after 11 years, this is the result of the Donald Trump Iran policy? A horrific deal, a deal that's a giveaway of tens of billions of dollars to Iran, no constraints on their nuclear program, American prestige destroyed.

This is the best they could do? It's really abysmal.

And imagine if we had had the alternative, where President Trump had stayed in the JCPOA in 2018 and built on it to enable us to have a strong policy towards the region.

We wouldn't have had to go to war.

Mm-hmm.

And again, if everything has fallen off the rails and people are indeed heading home, and we do not know that to be true yet, but if that happens, you know, he may be out of there.

Yeah, well, you know, Alex, technical in nature is a very strange way to describe it because everything in Middle East diplomacy is technical in nature.

Everything in Middle East diplomacy relies upon very narrow word definitions and very structured agreements that both sides view as identical in terms of their language.

And what it also requires is behind-the-scenes diplomacy, I got to add.

This idea that the president can just throw bombs from 5,000 miles away through social posts is completely antithetical to an effective diplomatic strategy where you get all of the experts around the table, which goes to another issue.

Who are our experts? Do we have full expert teams? During the Obama administration, when When our teams negotiated the JCPOA, there were ultimately two years worth of discussions based upon interim agreements.

And earlier than that, not an agreement, but diplomacy, technical expertise ad nauseum.

Were there these fits and starts as it was being negotiated or did that two-year lead-up take care of that which we saw in public?

One would

expect.

Hey, you know, it's news to me that a diplomatic agreement doesn't have to have words that anybody believes in.

If you go through the history of American diplomacy, treaties, agreements with foreign countries, you ultimately come to an agreed upon text that both sides say is the accurate text, and then they sign it, and then they move forward from that.

We already have two different texts.

We think one thing, the Iranians think another.

They frankly have President Trump on the run.

So they may not trust anybody's words, but I would damn sure trust their words because that could lead to some very unhealthy actions for the administration.

Um, there was a moment where he spoke quite a bit about Iran itself, talking about how the first tier of leadership was gone after strikes, and then the second, uh, tier of leadership was gone after US strikes, and then he started talking about who he's dealing with now in a positive way.

Yeah, Adi.

Uh, look, the President is still haunted by the shadow of Barack Obama's nuclear deal.

Clearly, he spent most of the time obsessing over how he, uh, did a better deal than Obama when we don't even have a deal right now on the nuclear program.

So with whom he's speaking, uh, I don't know exactly.

He says that the, the Supreme Leader and those around him, we're gonna see the foreign minister, uh, potentially on Friday signing the agreement with the vice president.

Uh, and, and of course, the IRGC, the, the, uh, the, the paramilitary revolutionary guard, they're the ones really controlling Iran right now.

Um, I notice they call it a memorandum, 'cause if you do, it doesn't trigger the law.

How do you think the relationship between our two countries has changed since the Obama administration?

Yeah, that's a great question.

Look, you know, during the Obama administration wh- when I served, uh, i- i- in legislative affairs, uh, the, the relationship was during Brexit, uh, at that time, and there was a lot of tension, uh, a lot of questions about what the vote would mean, and of course, the Obama team was not very, uh, excited about where that was heading either.

And then, uh, you fast-forward that a, a number of years, and there's been a lot of tensions over trade issues in particular.

Now, President Trump and Keir Starmer kind of buried that a little bit about a year ago with, with the, the first trade deal after, uh, President Trump announced new, new tariffs.

But, you know, I, I think that, that there's still a, a, a wondering about what is, uh, what i- what is the, the future of this relationship in terms of policy.

I have to add, though, uh, earlier in my career, I served in the Bush administration as a civil servant at the State Department, and back then, uh, the, the connection wi- with Great Britain in particular, uh, over Afghanistan was very tight.

... a difficult relationship with at the moment, and the head of state, the King? Because obviously President Trump is effectively both prime minister and head of state o- of the United States.

So what does that mean with Israel still pushing forward with its goals?

goals?It, you know, Audie, it's like the Abbott and Costello line, "Who's on first, what's on second, I don't know is on third." I, I think that's where we are right now in terms of the ceasefire.

There's no document that's been agreed to and signed by anybody, so this is more of a pause, not really a ceasefire.

I think what we're gonna look at over the weekend if we do get to those talks and the vice president does attend, and I think he should, is hopefully to get to some document that's unified-

Right

... an illegal, uh, piracy of their, their revenue, right? And so it's not gonna stand in international law, international courts.

What it is, though, to Mike's point, is another demonstration of the power that Iran has leveraged through its ability to stop flows through the strait to try to end this war and stay in, in survival mode there.

Uh, one last thing I do need to add is that the State Department, the energy bureau that would've looked at these issues, uh, that has been in, in existence for years was eliminated essentially last year by DOGE.

Your concerns are unwarranted because it is not going to last that long because the military operation, um, is going to be successful.

Yeah, Audie, they're whistling past the graveyard on that one.

Look, oil prices are always, in Middle East wars, the top level concern.

Uh, they should not be discounted.

Uh, what Alex laid out though, the $20 billion guarantee program from the Development Finance Corporation, which is supposed to be doing international development projects, this is gonna quickly run into congressional concerns as well.

So there's a couple of dynamics.

There's not only the market.

Tell me, help me understand the nuance of your reaction.

So is this, in a way, a result of that pressure?

Yeah, Audie, well, clearly this strike was intended to not just get at the drug kingpin, and remember, 10 to 20,000 Mexicans are killed every year in the drug war, but also to mollify the Trump administration, which is threatening to invade, as you point out, which I gotta tell you would be extraordinary and counterproductive and create worse damage than what we're seeing now.

So, uh, Sheinbaum sh- she takes this action for her own people, her own population.

Uh, we've seen bouts of violence after kingpins have, have been taken out as well before.

Uh, but I, I think the Trump team needs to recognize that she's a partner in this fight, not an adversary.

... what is the role of diplomacy, the State Department? What can you do to sort of be safe?

Yeah, a couple things.

First and foremost, if you're in Mexico, you need to check in with the consulate or the embassy.