All of them would be testifying at that day's hearing.

It made me a little nervous, but I wanted to put in my two cents' worth to try to make sure that he got punished for what happened, and that it wasn't minimized.

I thought he had hurt a lot of people, and I thought he had to pay for it.

But he had no illusions about what usually happened in cases like this.

Financial fraud that doesn't involve violence or a gun or that sort of thing, my experience is people like that don't get sentenced as harshly as somebody that uses physical violence to steal or break into property.

As Joe parked his car, Dr. Schneider came out to greet him.

He's got a nice cowboy hat on, and this duster that goes all the way down to the ground, and he's got his cowboy boots on.

I see somebody like that, and I just say, "Man, you are such a dude, wannabe cowboy." He's clearly not a working rancher.

Those guys don't show off like that.

All it had taken was one phone call to find Schneider apparently lying when he was sworn to tell the truth.

The guy's stupid.

I mean, he obviously, he has a certain level of smartness, of brilliance, you know, but when it came to making up a lie, he was just stupid.

So at that point, I know he's a liar.