How did you do that? How did you stay so focused?

Well, I, I don't know, you know.

I was real lucky.

I got in, I think my first game in the big leagues I was, like, 23 years old, and I had eight games in '70, uh, '76.

Then I had, like, 48 games in '77, and then, um, I was full-time after that, and I was very lucky 'cause I got to work with a lot of good people.

I got to see a lot of different places, and you know what? I saw a lot of good baseball, too.

I was very lucky that I got in at a time when the, the game was flourishing.

And who told you you were going to the big leagues?

You didn't fly too much.

No, we didn't fly until AAA.

And it was really something else.

And I can remember we were – I worked in the AA with a guy named John Shulock, and I worked with him again in AAA.

And I can remember when we were in the Southern Lake because we were tough guys.

We didn't clear up with anything.

And we used to walk on the field and you'd hear the players go, oh, no, not them.

happened, how excited were you? Because you're a fan also as an umpire, but you're seeing some nostalgic things happening, and you have to kind of hold your excitement in.

[laughs]

...

so sometimes, so sometimes he would say things that, uh, just to kinda irk you.

You know, like we had a play at third base and the young umpire at third base, he didn't get the call right.

And so Joe went out and had his say with the young umpire, and the young umpire didn't do anything.

And as Joe's walking back to the dugout, he said, uh, something like, "That just..." And I'm looking at the pitcher.

I'm not even looking at him.

Can you explain that? 'Cause I didn't realize that umpires had the ability until you told me a couple days ago, had the ability to fine guys instead of running them from the game.

Hey, that's-

Well, that, that's another thing.

I was gonna tell you this follow, follow-up story, and this is a cool story.

We got the Mets and the Dodgers in the playoffs, and we're gonna get rained out.

There's no way we can play.

It's impossible.

And we're sitting at Shea Stadium, and Bart Giamatti, who's the National League president, comes in the locker room, and he looks at Peter Ueberroth, who was the commissioner, and he said, "ABC wants me to televise this at prime time tomorrow night." As soon as he said that, I said, uh-Um, Bart, w- if you do that, we can't get to LA.

Mm-hmm.

[laughs]

I just know that, uh, they're t- they're trying to make everything as, uh, specific as they can.

They're trying to get all the umpires to call the same strike zone.

When I first came to the major leagues, [laughs] uh, we had, we had different...

Umpires had different strike zones.

We had Lee Wire.

If it got there between the dugouts and in the air, it was a strike.

Does it feel like it's something that the umpires are gonna have to adjust almost their personality, not necessarily just their [laughs] strike zone in how they react to the situation?

Yeah.

Go ahead.

You know, we were talking earlier about Gary Carter.

He talked the entire time.

He did not shut up.

But when he caught, he had one strike zone, and when he hit, he had another one.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, you talk about these guys now, especially like Molina, who frames, you know, they'll frame