There's a ton of things that we wanna talk to you about, but something we always do with our new guest, we wanna know just how did you get involved in this crazy world of alternative grading?

grading?[laughs] This is probably the most important question for me.

So I loved the corporate experience, right? Being with two Fortune 400 companies for 25 years, had incredible experience, a lot of successes, many more failures.

But I was also a recruiter during that time, and I just felt after that long period of time that I wanted to give back.

Frankly, I wanted a little bit more work-life harmony, but I also wanted to give back to the next generation of professionals.

I had a chance to interview with a couple of different schools, and the Kelley School of Business afforded me the opportunity to become a lecturer, a teaching faculty member at the Kelley School of Business.

And when I started, I never taught before, right? So yeah, I did some stuff in the classroom with some students, but it was a huge industry shift, but it was a mindset shift, right? I went from coaching and counseling direct reports to now having clients, which are students, right? Multiple, in the courses I'll talk a lot more about, I have up to 300 students in sections.

So why don't you go ahead and describe what was the data that you collected that drove specifications grading 2.0? You mentioned it briefly, but go ahead and share how did you bring in all of these, who did you bring in, and what data did you get other than that original study?