So with the song like Two Hearts, which feels pretty autobiographical, did that come out early on in your sleep deprived every, wow, you're feeling this profound feeling moment?

Well, you know, being there for the birth of our child, it was a home birth and we had it.

It's literally over there.

It's just by the sockets.

And, you know, it's one of the most...

I don't think I've ever felt anything so shocking and horrifying and in my life because ultimately the two people in the room that can deliver the baby safely are the mother and the child.

It's like it's like it's like.

Do you see the characters in these songs as distinctly American? I think

So how do you feel? Do you get that a lot? Do you get this sort of certainty from parents that kids are just doing it for attention? They're just trying to get under my skin.

I certainly hear that a lot.

I think a lot of people use that it's just about attention.

But I think there's a little validity to that, but not a lot.

I agree with you in terms of the 80%, 20%.

While you were talking, what I thought about was how excess information motivates defiance.

So, I'll start with just a little bit of research piece.

When they don't have the ability to do that, they assume there is nothing they can really do to stop a challenging behavior.

I mean, um, did you have any semblance or notion that things were gonna take off the way they did? Or were you just hoping it'd just be amazing to make any kind of a career out of doing music?

I mean, yeah, I think we were, um...

I think any-- I mean, we, we, we sort of started at, um, open mic nights, and then those open mic nights started changing to, um, like, uh, being put on, on like sort of local shows, and then local shows turned into, like, local festivals.

And, um, there was this, there was this kind of like, this kind of trajectory that we felt like we were going on, where things were improving.

Um, and then there were points where we were getting paid for certain gigs enough where we didn't have to cover the taxi fare.

And so, like, there were these little kind of, um, there were these little, uh, examples where things were getting better and better.

Um, and then, and then there became interest from London, 'cause we were in Leeds, and we started having managers that wanted to watch us play live.

Can you talk through creating that song and, and I'd love to hear what you were singing about [chuckles] on that track as well.

Started Leeds University, is that right? How did you get the band together?

Well, I went to university primarily because I wanted to get a band together.

So, yeah, we headed up to Leeds in 2007.

What were you studying? Fine arts.

OK.

So, like, you know, it was that counterintuitive sort of thinking where...

the best musicians are studying art.

How did you come about that sound, though? Because it was so different from everything else which was going on.