But like what first attracted you to the idea of competition?

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, honestly, a long time ago, me and my buddy Jesus, just we're wingsuiting together and we just were kind of joking around about how like we're training for nationals and we really didn't have any idea what we were doing or like what that even entailed but we just went out and would try and hold hands as much as we could and just whatever would like pop over each other and hold hands and uh yeah i found that flying to be really fun there's nothing more special than having a partner to fly with.

And, you know, I'm sure you've felt this before, like certain people you can fly with really well and it's just organic and natural.

And there's other people that like you just don't fly with very well.

You know, it's just kind of like blocky.

And Jesus was one of those guys that me and him were just like, gelled together really well and i really enjoyed jumping with him and uh yeah we just jumped together a lot this one year and said we're going to nationals and then uh unfortunately he actually died in a base jumping accident one day uh and so that kind of put a kaput to it because yeah i mean if you don't have a partner you can't really go compete in wingsuit acrobatic uh and then yeah just one day out of the blue this guy david called me and asked me to come film them And yeah, I ended up at Nationals in 23, I think it was.

there was a shocking statement there i still can't believe that uh you actually find compulsories more interested in the free round i genuinely would not have expected that from you but that's pretty cool um when did competition stop feeling intimidating and start feeling like one of your biggest learning tools?