I'm wondering, what does this say about men or people, even that far? But also, what does this say about gay culture, that these words are attractive, the alpha, the bully, the straight? This is a question I have that goes around in my head a few times.

Here's what I think it says.

So especially like Lord, and if it has a religious connotation, we have been as gay men locked out of the straight fraternity.

We have been kicked out of the religious fraternities.

So here we have access to playing with religion, playing with straight men, and we're in, you know, and we're desired.

And not only that, we're chaste.

and we're wanted and our money's valid here and we're wanted here and it's a way of reconciling it's going from trauma to triumph really you know it's from victim to victor kind of thing so now i have reconciled so much pain and when i first started 41 years ago as a therapist i'm jewish i had no idea we didn't have the kind of religious pain that i saw so many of my christian gay clients have one after the other after the other i live in detroit michigan super super conservative And they all had been kicked out or forced out and couldn't reconcile being gay and being religious.

I guess kind of to end this session, I'm wondering what do fin doms need to do or to make sure of that they're doing this in a healthy, sustainable way? Are there any kind of like pointers or markers that says this is not right for me or this is right for me? This is what I'm kind of left with.

But you're here to say, this is why you're so interesting to me and why we need your voice on my show, 'cause you need to really explain it.

Sure.

So here's the idea, that there are people that are into kink and to, and into fetish, so they might have a foot fetish.

They might have a, a fetish to, or a kink or a sexual interest in, in receiving anal sex or giving anal sex.

And so these men are not attracted to the men.

They don't look at the men and, and think... see themselves as this guy is hot, this experience I'm going to have, this actual sexual act I'm about to engage in is what's turning me on.

The man is incidental.

But then someone called in once and was like, "You got it totally wrong." And I was like, "I do have it totally wrong," 'cause that's what I always thought.