So as you're growing up, then as you're, you know, starting to select your classes in school, and what are you leaning towards? And where do your passions start to grow?

Well, by the time I was 13, I got an Apple IIe at home, and I had no access to books.

There was no internet back then.

All I saw was this black screen, and I didn't know what to do with it.

But at school, we had a bunch of people that had a whole bunch of disks with floppy disks, the five and a quarter inch floppy disks.

We might have been doing a little bit of piracy and passing along some programs.

So that was kind of interesting to learn the different things going on.

Tell me, you know, what in in this very impressive career, what's been your biggest lesson so far?

As Joe explained, for him and Jennison, the goal is for accessibility to be top of mind always, not just on one Thursday in May.

Over about the first 10 years of GAAD, we really were focused on the day of GAAD, and so many people were saying that this should really be something that we, that we celebrate and pay attention to every day of the year.

So for our 10th anniversary, we thought, all right, this is time now to create a foundation, which also will be something that hopefully this GAAD will go on longer than Jennison and I will, kind of want to get the younger generation involved in understanding the ethos of it.

One of the, the big things that we wanna do is focus on culture, because you can ask an organization to put money and effort into accessibility.

You can have regulation that force them to, to some extent, but what you can't do is require culture.Culture is something that you have to get organizations to volunteer to do, and it's not really organizations, it's individuals.

Maybe to put a, a finer point on this, if you're a designer and you're designing a chat app that has an online/offline indicator, and you just use a green or red button to indicate online/offline, you're using color to convey information, which is an accessibility no-no, because people who are blind cannot see the difference.

You really need to have something else, let's say a little bit of text that says online/offline.

Joe agrees vibe coding has good and bad points.

Mm.

Basically, I wake up every morning and fix everything that went wrong the day before and barely get it to, to really be useful, um, because it's been unstable.

But what I think it pr- represents is a moment, uh, a, a, a shift.

It's, it's a whole i- uh, idea, um, that is very important for the accessibility community.

And why is that? Because what it is, is you have the ability to attach, um, an input and an output to a central place where you have an AI controlling it.

So if you are trying to buy-- look at a mobile app, or you're trying to look at a website, or you're trying to, uh, look at the PDF menu of a restaurant or book your seat and see where the seat is, you don't have to care about what user interface was built on the other side of it.

Because the AI, you have a connector, and that connector connects up to, eventually it will be an agent, but for now it works around all of the, um, inaccessible aspects of what you're consuming.

Yep.