So that still could have been, but I'm sure you learned something there that helped you with Bronto.

Oh, definitely.

At the very, very early stages, the Joe hat that I need to put on was Joe, the product maker, the developer, because I was really just by myself and I needed to create something.

And one of the advantages of doing software over the internet, it really, you could create a product, not well, that was really one person that was sharp, that could nicely design a web application.

That's It's a lot more that goes into it, but a very small scale.

You could pull that off.

There's no real capital other than your time and your mind.

So kind of thinking through all that, were you actively trying to sell or was it a conversation with the folks at NetSuite? And then you started thinking about it and having a discussion with your partner.