That's the whole thing, isn't it? So who's been rooting for you? Who are the people who come to mind?

I have a lot of them.

They all play different roles.

You know, I've had a good career, but it's been built on the back of relationships and luck.

I could name Brian Cardin, who hired me at Eloqua.

And the reason for Brian is we were both at career crossroads.

We just didn't realize it.

Yeah.

have on

now.

And the thing about Dreamforce is everybody would chuckle that Mark would pre-announce products that wouldn't ship for a year.

And it felt like he was the only one in SaaS that could get away with that.

And the reason why is product development cycles were long and unpredictable in SaaS.

And he just granted himself the power to pre-announce.

But the rest of us didn't really have that type of courage.

Um, what have you seen as marketers as builders and, and what does that, how has that looked like, um, done well?